what was the controversy about between James and Paul?

[dio9]

Paul seems to have created a supernatural person.(Rom.8:3)" Sending his son in the likeness of sinful flesh
and (Rom.8:29) that he" foreknew , predestined and conformed his son Jesus."
According to Paul, Paul's Christ is not human, as he was made not a man but in "the likeness of man."(Phil.2:7)

Paul's Christ is different from the Jesus of Nazareth James and the apostles knew.

James actually sent delegations from Jerusalem to correct Paul's teachings to the churches he founded.

James thought Paul's creation of a supernatural Christ who existed before time predetermined, formed in the likeness of sinful flesh to be made up by Paul, incorrect heresy.

Paul himself confesses no one told him this except Christ (who he never met)

I am thinking this view of Christ is all Paul's creation, and has almost nothing to do with who James knew as his brother.

The only thing we can be sure of between Paul and James is that the both agree Jesus was crucified.

Paul's Christ and James' Jesus are two different people.

For debate:

Did God foreknow Jesus?
Did God predetermine and conform Jesus in the likeness of sinful flesh?
Is Jesus not human but only a likeness of Man?

[dio9]

Or has Paul created a stone Buddha?

[Elijah John]

.

For debate:

Did God foreknow Jesus?
Did God predetermine and conform Jesus in the likeness of sinful flesh?
Is Jesus not human but only a likeness of Man?

I agree in that Paul's "Christ" seems to bear little similarity to the historical Jesus. And same with John's Jesus.

But God foreknows everyone right, presumably including the Jesus.

That phrase "conforming Jesus in the likeness of human flesh" doesn't make much sense, and gives rise to heresy implying that Jesus only seemed human,and in effect denies his humanity. The statement almost sounds Gnostic as well, implying that human beings are sinful by nature and virtue of their existence as flesh and blood beings. And didn't Paul also claim that Jesus was "without sin"?

No, I've been reading John again, and am more convinced than ever that Jesus was completely human, and that the otherworldly tone of this Gospel sounds more like some of the apocryphal Gospels that were excluded from the Canon. Perhaps GoJ should have been excluded too. Same with portions of Paul's writings. Portions of Paul and most of GoJ sound more like science fiction and superhero stuff, than a historical account of a real person. Even a person who was filled with the Holy Spirit and devoted to his God.

In short, the otherworldly tone of the GoJ and certain passages of Paul backfire, (on me anyway), not only failing to convince me that "Jesus is God disguised in the flesh" but making me doubt the credibility of either/both authors.

Paul admits he "never met Jesus in the flesh" and I doubt that the author of the GoJ was the actual John the apostle.

It's like comparing Jeffrey Hunter's Jesus to Cliff Curtis' Jesus (Risen). I find Curtis portrayal far more convincing, as though Curtis was more inspired by the Synoptics than the GoJ or the writings of Paul.

And regard to your OP title:

what was the controversy about between James and Paul?

It is my understanding that the controversy between Peter and Paul was about the keeping of the Law, but the controversy between James and Paul?

The whole "faith vs works" thing comes to mind. But yes, it may well have been between James' witness to the real Jesus, vs. Paul's claim of a superhuman Jesus whom he never met in the flesh, but only in a vision.

[dio9]

One thing I can't figure is what drove Paul?

He didn't know Jesus , he didn't get along with Peter James and John, the rest of the 12 were afraid of him , he never fellowshiped with the mother church and preached a different , Gospel .

What drove him?

[Elijah John]

One thing I can't figure is what drove Paul?

He didn't know Jesus , he didn't get along with Peter James and John, the rest of the 12 were afraid of him , he never fellowshiped with the mother church and preached a different , Gospel .

What drove him?

His own "vision" literally (if he actually had one) and figuratively.

[dio9]

[Replying to post 5 by Elijah John]

So are the visions of Paul the foundation of resurrection Christianity?

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 5 by Elijah John]

So are the visions of Paul the foundation of resurrection Christianity?

Could be. He seems to have developed two whole theologies, one centered around the "Risen Christ" who was Paul's everything. The other centered around vicarious blood-atonement.

The first was probably based on the resurrection accounts of other Evangelists, combined with his own vision (assuming he actually had one) which verified those accounts for Paul.

The second? Paul's attempt to make sense of a "crucified Messiah". He found meaning in that martyrdom by tying it to previous practice of animal sacrifice, making Christ both Priest and lamb instead.

It seems that Paul's dual theologies are the foundation for RCC theololgy, and by extension of the RCC Trinitarian offshoots.

Given his considerable influence I don't really understand why Paul is not considered the first Pope. But there ya go.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 1 by dio9]

Paul seems to have created a supernatural person.

All of the Gospel characters might have been "created" by their authors.
That's the way stories go.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 1 by dio9]

Wasn't the conflict just about following the laws or not?

Was Jesus' sacrifice sufficient or not?

If not then the laws still matter and Jesus died in vain.

If they are sufficient then the laws don't matter for salvation.

I never heard it was deeper than that.

What do people think: was Jesus death sufficient or not?

[Sword007]

One thing I can't figure is what drove Paul?

He didn't know Jesus , he didn't get along with Peter James and John, the rest of the 12 were afraid of him , he never fellowshiped with the mother church and preached a different , Gospel .

What drove him?

The apostles preached to the Jews, the lost sheep of Israel, which Jesus told them to. Paul preached to Gentiles the Gospel of grace, which is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.