Paul's evidence? John's evidence?

[Elijah John]

Jehovah's Witnesses and even Jews and Muslims argue effectively that Jesus is not God, and they often point out that NT passages which seem to indicate that he is, are actually twisted and taken out of context. Or refuted by other NT passages.

So for the sake of argument, and for the purposes of this OP, let us consider the matter settled, that Jesus is not God.

Still, John and Paul present Jesus as a supernatural being, "the Word" present with the Father and the Holy Spirit at Creation, and the "first born of all Creation, through whom all things were made" and for him all things were made.

This is extremely high Christology.

So assuming that Jesus is not actually "God", what evidence do Paul and John present to support their claims that Jesus was "sent to earth from Heaven, or that he was "Michael the Archangel" or that he actually existed before Abraham?

And if Jesus is so "supernatural", why not consider him a god, if not THE God?

If one accepts Jesus as "supernatural" why stop there? Why not consider him the Almighty as well? For practical purposes, if not theoretical/theological?

Or to borrow DI's nomenclature, what evidence exists outside of the NT that Jesus is a "demigod"?

Bear in mind that John and Paul had no New Testament upon which to draw, so where do they get this stuff?

[polonius]

JW posted:

We do. Jehovah's Witnesses recognize Jesus as "a god" (see John 1:1) but not Almighty God. Of course, when Jesus was on earth he was indeed a human (man) with supernatural powers by his Father (Almighty God YHWH Jehovah). Now, however, we believe him to be a Mighty God whose authority outstrips everyone living with the exception of his Father, Jehovah (see Matthew 28:19, 20; Isaiah 9:6)

QUESTION: Then how do Jehovah Witnesses define the term "God" or “god�?
Apparently not “the supreme or ultimate reality: such as: the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshiped as creator and ruler of the universe.�

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

Or to borrow DI's nomenclature, what evidence exists outside of the NT that Jesus is a "demigod"?

Bear in mind that John and Paul had no New Testament upon which to draw, so where do they get this stuff?

I suggest John wrote his reflections from his personal experiences of Jesus, and Paul from divine revelation that came from ponderings on what others had shared, and on what were his own experiences.

In the end it is all about interpretations, theirs and ours.

The truth is out there, somewhere!

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

Or to borrow DI's nomenclature, what evidence exists outside of the NT that Jesus is a "demigod"?

Bear in mind that John and Paul had no New Testament upon which to draw, so where do they get this stuff?

I suggest John wrote his reflections from his personal experiences of Jesus, and Paul from divine revelation that came from ponderings on what others had shared, and on what were his own experiences.

In the end it is all about interpretations, theirs and ours.

The truth is out there, somewhere!

Possibly. But was John the Evangelist, the same as John the Revelator, the same as John the Apostle?

Also, the few passages from the GoJ which seem to indicate that "Jesus is God" don't really seem rooted in the "Old"Testament, Hebrew Bible. Except in an act of usurpation. John seems to have done his share of "lifting and twisting". Revisionism.

For example he lifts King David's LORD (YHVH) as the Shepherd, and he twists the passage, making Jesus the "Good Shepherd. Takes a metaphor meant for God and applies it to Jesus.

And regarding Paul, he has given us "hearsay". Perhaps a valid revelation to him but once he tells others, it becomes "hearsay" and no one is obliged to believe it.

(with apologies and thanks to Thomas Paine)

Paul's experience was subjective, by which I do not mean to say "false" or "delusional".

But is one man's vision enough to build an entire religion?

Don't it beat all, that's exactly what seems to have happened with the RCC and all of it's offshoots!

Go figure.

[JehovahsWitness]

Do you pray to Jesus at all?

Do you consider Jesus divine?

Do you consider Jesus the son of God?

Do you pray to Jesus at all?

No, never.

Do you consider Jesus divine?

Depends what you mean. If you mean god-like as in like God, then yes. If you mean part of Almighty god as in part of a trinity, no.


Do you consider Jesus the son of God?

Yes.


JW

[JehovahsWitness]

QUESTION: Then how do Jehovah Witnesses define the term "God" or “god�?

Biblically the term "god" can apply to anyone with a degree of power, even a human.

Apparently not “the supreme or ultimate reality: such as: the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshiped as creator and ruler of the universe.�

That would be Almighty God, the Creator of the universe; We usually call this one JEHOVAH to avoid any identity confusion.