IS there one god or many gods?

[Joe1950]

For the sake of this topic I am assuming the Bible is the word of god and that god is a male. I am using a standard version of the Old Testament law called the 10 commandments. These are the rules handed down to the Jews by God himself.

"I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
Thou shalt have no other gods before Me. Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any manner of likeness, of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; Thou shalt not bow down unto them, nor serve them; for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me; And showing mercy unto the thousandth generation of them that love Me and keep My commandments."

According to this commandment there is not just one god, but many gods. The god of the Jews is quite clear, is he not? God never states that he is the ONLY god, but rather he is the god of the Jews.

My topic for debate: Is there just one true god, or are there many gods?

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 20 by onewithhim]

I don't believe those women that you describe are under a fair, reasonable, godly law.

I don't either, but I suppose what happened to Lot's wife was her being under a 'fair, reasonable, godly law"?
What's the difference between telling a woman not to look back at her home town, under pain of death, and telling a woman not to chat to a man on Facebook, under pain of death?

Their men get their crazy ideas from a book that is not inspired by God, IMHO.

You do understand that this is what I think about you and your book? You're espousing what looks to me to be a 'crazy idea' about a woman being turned into a pillar of salt...simply for turning her head to look back at her home town. IMHO I don't see how this can be 'fair, reasonable' or from God. It's madness.

I wouldn't compare Lot's wife with the poor women who are burdened with cruel men's laws.

Why not? Both Lot's wife and the real women in Saudi Arabia are being burdened with death threats for trivial matters.

Apparently Jehovah saw Lot's wife's heart and how much she wanted to stay in Sodom, not concerned at all about Jehovah's loving kindness for sparing her family.

No. This is something you (or others) quite frankly make up about Lot's wife's character. Using the NWT, here is what is said about her.
Genesis 19, Verse 17
"As soon as they had brought them to the outskirts, he said: “Escape for your life!* Do not look behind you+ and do not stand still in any part of the district!+ Escape to the mountainous region so that you may not be swept away!�"
Verse 26
"But Lot’s wife, who was behind him, began to look back, and she became a pillar of salt."

That's it. She just looks back, no BEGINS to look back...instant death. No warning beforehand that doing so will result in death. No explanation for WHY looking back at something interesting (after all, how many times does God destroy one's home town?) is something that needs to be punished.
In order for this passage to make sense to you, what you and others have done is make up stuff about Lot's wife's character, about how she apparently wanted to stay in the home town, and how feeling like that is something that just NEEDS to be punished by death.

It wasn't trivial. Jehovah doesn't bring someone's life to an end for trivial actions. She was wanting to fight against the God of the universe. She wanted to go back to that immoral city.

This quite frankly is something you have literally made up. Nowhere in the Bible, not even in the NWT of the Jehovah's Witnesses, does it state that the wife wanted to fight against the God of the Universe, or go back to her city. She just looked back behind her, and somehow this merits death by transmutation into sodium chloride.
You give this woman no defense, you spare her no compassion.

I don't believe for a minute that the women in the Middle East are being controlled by men who get their commands from God. Those men are evil and their only god is the Devil.

I don't believe the women in the Middle East are being controlled by Godly men either...but my point of view is that BOTH YOU and the men who control them espouse the EXACT SAME SENTIMENT.
Obey or Die.
Morally, there is no difference between you and the men in the Middle East (those who espouse hard line Sharia law). Both you and they teach submission under pain of death, both you and they teach that this teaching comes from God.

If I ask a Saudi Muslim about Lot's wife, he will more than likely say the same thing. She turned back, and got what she deserved. (Only difference being that in the Quran, the wife isn't punished because she looked back, but because she didn't believe her husband and stayed behind)

[marco]

Yahweh could have very easily said in the commandment: I am the ONLY god. He doesn't make that claim. Only that he is to be recognized as the TOP god.

He could have said this but across the world then and now there ARE other claimants. He's not entering a theological debate about his own claim - he is simply saying forget anything else you choose to worship, including power and money, and pay honour to me.

It is certainly not true that "worship no other gods" is an indication that other divinities exist as Yahweh does. That is false extrapolation. Nor is God claiming to be the foremost of many. It may simply mean that people make other things their gods, which was true then and is true now.

[Joe1950]

[Replying to post 18 by onewithhim]

You seem to ignore the point I was making. The PUNISHMENTS dished out by god . My original post said that the god of the OT was nasty. Yes. He throws people out of society for eating certain foods ? that is normal in your opinion?
He condemns men to DEATH for homosexual behavior? That is moral? He condemns men and women to DEATH for sexual behavior? If you think all of these condemnations are justified, we simply disagree on what :nasty" means.
And you BLAME the people who were living ON THEIR OWN LAND for not leaving? How DARE these infants be born and be living in their parents homes ! And you say that it is morally fine to commit genocide on people who refuse to leave their homeland? WOW ! I have to say that our concepts of "decency" are certainly on opposite sides of the spectrum.

[Joe1950]

Yahweh could have very easily said in the commandment: I am the ONLY god. He doesn't make that claim. Only that he is to be recognized as the TOP god.

He could have said this but across the world then and now there ARE other claimants. He's not entering a theological debate about his own claim - he is simply saying forget anything else you choose to worship, including power and money, and pay honour to me.

It is certainly not true that "worship no other gods" is an indication that other divinities exist as Yahweh does. That is false extrapolation. Nor is God claiming to be the foremost of many. It may simply mean that people make other things their gods, which was true then and is true now.

Why are you putting words into yahweh's mouth? he is god. He said what he said. He does not need an interpretation, does he? Why not just accept his words as they are written? I notice that this is a technique often used by many to try to change what the Bible actually says. As I said in my post, there is no reason to mention "other gods" unless they exist.

[Elijah John]

Yahweh could have very easily said in the commandment: I am the ONLY god. He doesn't make that claim. Only that he is to be recognized as the TOP god.

He could have said this but across the world then and now there ARE other claimants. He's not entering a theological debate about his own claim - he is simply saying forget anything else you choose to worship, including power and money, and pay honour to me.

It is certainly not true that "worship no other gods" is an indication that other divinities exist as Yahweh does. That is false extrapolation. Nor is God claiming to be the foremost of many. It may simply mean that people make other things their gods, which was true then and is true now.

That is a modern, but certainly not an invalid interpretation. In the days of Moses, YHVH was considered the only allowable God among many to serve and worship. The imperative was for Jews to practice the monolatry, with YHVH as their sole focus.

It wasn't until Isaiah that YHVH was proclaimed the only God who actually existed. Then the Prophets called on YHVH's people to practice true Monotheism, and cast off the superstition that other gods even existed.

[onewithhim]

According to this commandment there is not just one god, but many gods. The god of the Jews is quite clear, is he not? God never states that he is the ONLY god, but rather he is the god of the Jews.

My topic for debate: Is there just one true god, or are there many gods?

Your interpretation is that there are many gods but the commandment does not say this. It says there should be no gods other than Yahweh and gives an explanatory note on what is meant by other. Idols and images that might be worshipped are unacceptable. So "other" seems to suggest "false", rather than companion deities to Yahweh.

However, the curious word "jealous" opens up doors for further debate.

Good answer. There are, in reality, no other Gods besides Jehovah, and no other "gods" that can match him.

Jehovah's "jealousy" is not jealousy like humans have. His jealousy involves a mind-set that encompasses the fact that he absolutely deserves all of creation's honor and worship, and he is so right because he made us and he loves us. No other "god" whether it be Eric Clapton or what we are going to put in our mouths deserves to be put ahead of Jehovah. He is the one taking care of us. Why shouldn't he feel bad when his creations ignore him? It's not fair of us.

"For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ, whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things." (Philippians 3:18,19, NASB)


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[Joe1950]

[Replying to post 26 by onewithhim]

There are plenty of other gods. The Greeks and Romans had plenty, as did the Egyptians, Babylonians,Hindus, etc.
Zeus was the top god of the Greeks. he is mentioned plenty of times in great epic poetry, as are other Greek and Roman gods. Why do you deny the existence of gods? They are mentioned throughout the ancient writings.

[marco]

Why are you putting words into yahweh's mouth? he is god. He said what he said. He does not need an interpretation, does he? Why not just accept his words as they are written? I notice that this is a technique often used by many to try to change what the Bible actually says. As I said in my post, there is no reason to mention "other gods" unless they exist.

The original writers put the words into Yahweh's mouth, not Marco. Any sentence requires interpretation, especially one that has suffered the indignities of translation. Thus, placing "no other gods before me" can certainly mean that Yahweh is unhappy at false gods. It is hardly stretching meaning to construe this. To move further and deduce there are real divinities, rather than false gods, to rival Yahweh is your own interpretation. But you are as entitled to yours as I am to mine.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 26 by onewithhim]

There are plenty of other gods. The Greeks and Romans had plenty, as did the Egyptians, Babylonians,Hindus, etc.
Zeus was the top god of the Greeks. he is mentioned plenty of times in great epic poetry, as are other Greek and Roman gods. Why do you deny the existence of gods? They are mentioned throughout the ancient writings.

Why do you say that I deny the existence of gods? Apparently you haven't bothered to read my posts.

[marco]

[Replying to post 26 by onewithhim]

There are plenty of other gods. The Greeks and Romans had plenty, as did the Egyptians, Babylonians,Hindus, etc.
Zeus was the top god of the Greeks. he is mentioned plenty of times in great epic poetry, as are other Greek and Roman gods. Why do you deny the existence of gods? They are mentioned throughout the ancient writings.

Their mention does not mean they EXIST. As I said, the other gods are no more than the idols or inventions of various people. Presumably Yahweh knew this. When he says: don't have other gods to replace me he means they should not be worshipping Zeus or any other fabrication. Yahweh is real - they do not exist. Surely this is clear.