Why can't God make his presence known to me right now?

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I am a very open minded person and consider all possibilities. I am open to the possibility of a God and an afterlife. I am also open to the possibility that this God could be one who demands and expects that I obey and serve him or that I would be condemned to a horrible afterlife. I have been doing some open minded research on the subject of life after death. As of right now, it doesn't matter what anyone says to me or what claims other people present to me in regards to God's character, if he is real or not, or if I am a blind sinner or not.

The reason why it doesn't matter to me is because, like I said, I am very open minded right now and am open to alternative explanations of the things people offer up here. I am a very wise open minded individual and I do not jump to any given conclusion based upon some things I read online or a holy book such as the bible. There is so much more to look into and have an open mind to. Even things that sound very compelling cannot be trusted since there are plenty of things out there that sound compelling, but are actually not.

However, I have very little to no patience at all since I have no interest in doing research or in dedicating my life to a Christian or other religious lifestyle in order for God's presence to be known to me if he is real. That is no different than expecting me to dedicate my life to a certain career such as dentistry when I have no interest in that career. It is just an unfair and unrealistic expectation of me. If God is real and I really am a sinner who is in need of saving, then why can't God swoop into my mind right now and convince me he is real?

If it's because I am not worthy of a God who would be so frantic as to do all he could to convince me right here and now rather than expecting me to dedicate my life in trying to find him, then why did God even go through the trouble of inspiring a holy book or making a sacrifice for our sins? If he thought mankind was worthy of this and he so loved his human creations as to do this deed, then why can't he take it a step further and make his presence known to me right now considering I have no patience and no interest in seeking him out?

I have done what I could right now in trying to seek out the Lord if he is real and I am not going to do anymore because, like I said, I have no patience and no interest. But if God is real and I do meet him after I die and he says to me that I am a sinner who has one last chance to repent, then I would not be foolish. I would completely give myself unto the Lord right then and there. Any other way would result in a horrible afterlife of misery and there is no way I would choose that.

But considering the fact that I would have to dedicate my life in trying to seek out God and be convinced of his existence if he is real and considering the fact that there are so many people out there who have already done this with a truly open mind and heart and were still not convinced, then it is a waste of my time and I have no interest and no patience for this. As for those who were convinced in a reasonable time frame, then I have no way of knowing if their conviction was through a truly open mind or if they were close minded and just decided to believe God is real.

This lack of knowing further makes my point here that it is all a waste of my time. It's very unlikely that there would be any way to convince me because I have looked and researched into so much already with a truly open mind and heart and I just see nothing more than a vast sea of arguments and debates, but no conclusion being reached one way or another. This is yet another reason why this is all a waste of my time.

[Elijah John]

it is a waste of my time and I have no interest and no patience for this.

This lack of knowing further makes my point here that it is all a waste of my time.

Perhaps these are the reasons He is NOT making Himself known to you. Perahps a simple leap of faith is required.

It is a cliche, but one with some truth. A twist on the old saying "seeing is believing". The twist is, believing is seeing.

It is doubtful that God would be found with study and debate, more probable that He can be found by listening to that still small voice within. Listening with patience.

Not that you would necessarily embrace all the convolutions of doctrine and dogma, but merely the simple fact of His existence.

Then you would see His hand in all the good that surrounds you, and that is within you.

If this all has no interest to you, (not just my post) then you wouldn't have started your thread, would you?

Or are you just venting your frustration?

As He says in the Pslams,

Be still and know that I am God.

And there is a passage, (though I forget where)

You will seek me and you will find me, when you seek with all of your heart.

Not "You will find me, when you frantically seek me with all of your mind.

[The Transcended Omniverse]

[Replying to post 2 by Elijah John]

You say there is a small voice within and that I have to find God within. Again, this still all goes back to what I said before regarding that it doesn't matter what claims other people make or what others say; I will always still keep an open mind to other possible explanations. Everything you have said in your post is a claim and there is no way for me to be convinced of it because, as I said before, I am a very wise and very open minded individual who does not jump to conclusions and considers all other possible explanations.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 2 by Elijah John]

You say there is a small voice within and that I have to find God within. Again, this still all goes back to what I said before regarding that it doesn't matter what claims other people make or what others say; I will always still keep an open mind to other possible explanations. Everything you have said in your post is a claim and there is no way for me to be convinced of it because, as I said before, I am a very wise and very open minded individual who does not jump to conclusions and considers all other possible explanations.

Then what's the point of the tread, as you said in the title, "Why can't God make his presence known to me right now"?

Any answers for a topic of this type is bound to involve opinion and speculation. If you are looking for proof I don't think that God works that way.

My understanding, and my experience is that He works more through the heart than He does through the mind.

There's also an old saying, that you cannot make yourself believe, but you can suspend disbelief, the willing suspension of disbelief.

Like when one watches a movie or a play.

It's like giving God, "the benefit of the doubt".

Even in the Bible, there is that verse

Lord I believe, help my unbelief.

[The Transcended Omniverse]

[Replying to post 4 by Elijah John]

My whole point in making this topic would be that how is it justified that someone in my predicament go to hell and be condemned by that well known statement God says on judgment day from the bible:

"Depart from me, ye cursed, into the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

Shouldn't God understand my whole predicament if he is real and shouldn't he give me a 2nd chance? It's not like I am convinced God is real and have rejected him. If I were convinced he was real, then I would serve him because there would be no way I would choose to go to hell.

[The Transcended Omniverse]

My understanding, and my experience is that He works more through the heart than He does through the mind.

I see you have recently edited your post. I will make a response to this as well. So, go ahead and respond to both my previous post and this one. I would like to say here that the mind always has to come first over the heart because in order to be convinced that God is somewhere within your heart and that you just have to find him there, then that requires the mind to be convinced of that claim in the first place. It is no different than if you told me right now that there is some magical fairy and that I just have to look within my heart to find him/her. There is no way that can happen considering I am not convinced of that claim in the first place.

Actually, it all comes down to the mind. It is solely about the mind because even if you felt strongly in your heart or had some sort of powerful experience that made you feel God was real, then as long as your mind is still open to other possible explanations, then you still cannot be convinced God is real.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 4 by Elijah John]

My whole point in making this topic would be that how is it justified that someone in my predicament go to hell and be condemned by that well known statement God says on judgment day from the bible:

"Depart from me, ye cursed, into the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

Shouldn't God understand my whole predicament if he is real and shouldn't he give me a 2nd chance? It's not like I am convinced God is real and have rejected him. If I were convinced he was real, then I would serve him because there would be no way I would choose to go to hell.

I think God judges by the heart as well. I don't think the Bible teaches that anyone goes to hell for disbelief. The Evangelist John, perhaps, but I take John with a grain of salt.

The Bible constantly teaches that the righteous will inherit eternal life, not believers in correct doctrine.

I don't think there is any evidence that God send anyone to hell for "heresy", or for agnosticism.

[Elijah John]

My understanding, and my experience is that He works more through the heart than He does through the mind.

I see you have recently edited your post. I will make a response to this as well. So, go ahead and respond to both my previous post and this one. I would like to say here that the mind always has to come first over the heart because in order to be convinced that God is somewhere within your heart and that you just have to find him there, then that requires the mind to be convinced of that claim in the first place. It is no different than if you told me right now that there is some magical fairy and that I just have to look within my heart to find him/her. There is no way that can happen considering I am not convinced of that claim in the first place.

Actually, it all comes down to the mind. It is solely about the mind because even if you felt strongly in your heart or had some sort of powerful experience that made you feel God was real, then as long as your mind is still open to other possible explanations, then you still cannot be convinced God is real.

I see what you are saying. I agree, we shouldn't turn off our minds. The way I see it is that some things accord with Reason, some things contradict Reason, and some things transcend Reason.

The way I see it, is that the simple belief in God transcends Reason, but does not contradict it.

Belief in convoluted doctrines like the Trinity, or bloody-atonement, however, contradict Reason, and so I reject them.

But I still maintain a simple belief in God and His mercy, understanding and compassion.

[The Transcended Omniverse]

[Replying to post 8 by Elijah John]

I have no idea what you mean here when you say 'transcending reason.' It doesn't make any sense to me.

[ttruscott]

Why can't God make his presence known to me right now?

There is no reason why GOD can't make HIS reality and presence known to you right now.

But from Christian pov, what good would that do? We accept that Romans 1:20 For from the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. teaches that everyone has had HIS invisible qualities, HIS eternal power and divine nature so clearly proven to them all that no one has any excuse for their disbelief.

Sinners, believers and non-believers both, do not accept this because they have no memory of such an experience but the rest of the chapter is quite explicit that sinners all repress this knowledge they have of the proof of HIS Deity and power because they love their sin more than the truth...it is repeated over and over.

So why provide proof again if sin has the power to make people repress their own memories and pretend deeply it never happened? What purpose would it serve since the power of sin over the truth has already been exposed?

Do you think you (generic you) would become a believer? If you are elect, then yes but there is no reason for HIM not to make HIMself real for you is there? In other words, waaaaait for it...

If you are not elect, then meeting HIM will indeed prove the nature of Christian reality but will that get you saved or into heaven? The criteria for becoming elect and saved is a free will acceptance of YHWH as our GOD and HIS Son as our saviour, by faith, that is an unproven hope. To only believe from proof does not fulfill the requirements of faith at all and you end like the demons, knowing the truth without any efficacious effect: James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that and shudder. Would knowing the truth of one's damnation make one happier or more demonic for the rest of their life - a question to be considered. To not break or cure this memory repression would then be a blessing for those whose free will choices made them unable to be saved.