Why can't God make his presence known to me right now?

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I am a very open minded person and consider all possibilities. I am open to the possibility of a God and an afterlife. I am also open to the possibility that this God could be one who demands and expects that I obey and serve him or that I would be condemned to a horrible afterlife. I have been doing some open minded research on the subject of life after death. As of right now, it doesn't matter what anyone says to me or what claims other people present to me in regards to God's character, if he is real or not, or if I am a blind sinner or not.

The reason why it doesn't matter to me is because, like I said, I am very open minded right now and am open to alternative explanations of the things people offer up here. I am a very wise open minded individual and I do not jump to any given conclusion based upon some things I read online or a holy book such as the bible. There is so much more to look into and have an open mind to. Even things that sound very compelling cannot be trusted since there are plenty of things out there that sound compelling, but are actually not.

However, I have very little to no patience at all since I have no interest in doing research or in dedicating my life to a Christian or other religious lifestyle in order for God's presence to be known to me if he is real. That is no different than expecting me to dedicate my life to a certain career such as dentistry when I have no interest in that career. It is just an unfair and unrealistic expectation of me. If God is real and I really am a sinner who is in need of saving, then why can't God swoop into my mind right now and convince me he is real?

If it's because I am not worthy of a God who would be so frantic as to do all he could to convince me right here and now rather than expecting me to dedicate my life in trying to find him, then why did God even go through the trouble of inspiring a holy book or making a sacrifice for our sins? If he thought mankind was worthy of this and he so loved his human creations as to do this deed, then why can't he take it a step further and make his presence known to me right now considering I have no patience and no interest in seeking him out?

I have done what I could right now in trying to seek out the Lord if he is real and I am not going to do anymore because, like I said, I have no patience and no interest. But if God is real and I do meet him after I die and he says to me that I am a sinner who has one last chance to repent, then I would not be foolish. I would completely give myself unto the Lord right then and there. Any other way would result in a horrible afterlife of misery and there is no way I would choose that.

But considering the fact that I would have to dedicate my life in trying to seek out God and be convinced of his existence if he is real and considering the fact that there are so many people out there who have already done this with a truly open mind and heart and were still not convinced, then it is a waste of my time and I have no interest and no patience for this. As for those who were convinced in a reasonable time frame, then I have no way of knowing if their conviction was through a truly open mind or if they were close minded and just decided to believe God is real.

This lack of knowing further makes my point here that it is all a waste of my time. It's very unlikely that there would be any way to convince me because I have looked and researched into so much already with a truly open mind and heart and I just see nothing more than a vast sea of arguments and debates, but no conclusion being reached one way or another. This is yet another reason why this is all a waste of my time.

[The Transcended Omniverse]

[Replying to post 27 by Elijah John]

But even if this whole concept of life after death and the existence of God does transcend reason, it does not follow from there that there is a God. You shouldn't believe in God just because everything seems to transcend reason. I think that would be close minded here.

[ttruscott]

...This whole entire post you have made is yet another claim I am not convinced of since I consider all possibilities and don't just jump to conclusions as I've said before. I am saying this here again because it seems as though you just forget that and immediately jump back to your conclusion again that I have no excuse for my disbelief, I am repressing knowledge due to my love of sin, etc.

Every possibility other than this one eh? Anyway, it is not my conclusion but my acceptance of a Biblical conclusion. That is, no jumping was involved just careful scrutiny over years of the probable meanings of verses was involved to see which one most fit the revealed character of GOD and the story of redemption the best.

Also, read my other posts in this topic because I have clearly pointed out how it all comes down to the mind and not the heart when seeking the truth.

If you are not using this like a platitude then it must mean that you judge systems of religion on logic and reason, not emotionalism. Good, I do to.

I can assure you that I have a truly open mind here and I am not rejecting anything here, denying anything here, or choosing to repress any knowledge due to some love of sin.

So you consider it is possible that you saw the creation of the physical universe by which you learned that YHWH was indeed our Creator GOD and that you have repressed that memory because you are a sinner?

When do you stop considering possibilities and start to commit to the ideology that seems to be the most right for you...the one where you might put your hope of having the best life.

As a matter of fact, I am completely willing to give up any sinful way of life I might be living in order to be saved because, as I said earlier, there is no way I would condemn myself to hell if I were convinced God were real.

It seems like you are still rejecting faith, HOPE without proof as a viable means of accessing GOD yet faith it the essential message of Christian theology...a faith you are refusing to accept.

Lastly, in order for me to dedicate my life to God, serve him, and live the holy life he wants me to live, then I would have to be convinced he is real in the first place. Like I said, I have no patience for this and I have already done all that my very limited patience and interest could achieve and I am still not convinced.

You are without patience for the essential of the religion that you are open minded about.

[The Transcended Omniverse]

[Replying to post 32 by ttruscott]

The idea that I am repressing knowledge due to sin is something I do not have to remain open minded about because I know this is not true. I know myself and I know that I am having a truly open mind and heart. I am not having some sort of fear and denial here that I am using to repress knowledge. It is no different than a situation where a person thinks you are lying. If you know you are being sincere and telling the truth, then you do not need to be open minded towards the possibility that you are lying since you already know you are being truthful.

The idea that I have no excuse for my disbelief is the same concept here. If I have researched with a truly open and honest mind and if I still haven't come to any conclusion, then that is every excuse for my disbelief. There are certain things that are obvious facts in life that you do not have to keep an open mind on and then there are those types of things you cannot be convinced of one way or the other where you do have to keep an open mind to all possibilities.

As for faith (hope), I am definitely choosing to have this attitude right now if that is what is needed to save me. But like I said before, there are other views of Christianity out there which say that you need to literally believe in Jesus to be saved and commit yourself to the holy way of life God wants you to live. I am open to these views. Also, I do commit to my own ideology since I said before that living a Christian life is a waste of time to me since I am not convinced God is real in the first place.

But I do ponder the idea if there is a hell and if I would go there. I do worry about this which is why I wish to have this discussion. But it's not discussion regarding claims and evidence since I cannot be convinced one way or the other. Rather, it is this sort of debate and discussion I have been carrying on here. Lastly, the reason why I am impatient and am not even going to bother seeking out God would be because I see no way I can be convinced one way or the other of his existence.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 29 by onewithhim]

I am open to the possibility of hell which would mean that your views are nothing important because, like I said before, there is no view out there that can convince me one way or the other whether there is a hell or not and whether there is a God/afterlife or not. The reason why I am carrying on with a debate with others here is because there is the difference between debating the claimed evidence which is a debate that I cannot be convinced of one way or the other as opposed to the type of discussion I have been having here which would be merely trying to work something out for me, trying to sort this whole situation out, and trying to figure some things out.

Then why don't you respond to questions and comments from others who are just trying to add to the discussion? LIKE MY COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS! Are you ignoring me for a specific reason?


.

[The Transcended Omniverse]

[Replying to post 34 by onewithhim]

I am only responding to those types of responses which are relevant now. I do not wish to discuss my previous topics any longer. I only wish to focus on this topic now and the discussion I have been having now with all the other people here in this topic.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 35 by The Transcended Omniverse]

You're bouncing all over the place. You ask about "hell" and then you don't respond to other points of view about it.

Go figure, eh?



www.jw.org/en/search/?q=Hell

[The Transcended Omniverse]

[Replying to post 36 by onewithhim]

I wasn't talking about hell. Rather, I was having this debate. Hell was a concept I brought up, but didn't want to debate that right now. I instead was focusing here on this debate I was having since having this debate right now is what is important.

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 32 by ttruscott]

The idea that I am repressing knowledge due to sin is something I do not have to remain open minded about because I know this is not true.

There you go, a commitment... this is the way it goes, open minded until you choose and then you must admit your choices become your biases and lofty claims of open mindedness melt...

[The Transcended Omniverse]

[Replying to post 38 by ttruscott]

You have taken what I said out of context. Read the rest because I go on from there to give an analogy that justifies that statement of mine. It is an analogy of how a person who knows he/she is telling the truth does not have to be open minded towards another person's claim that he/she is lying since this person knows he/she is telling the truth. This analogy applies only if repressing the divine knowledge is equivalent to the analogy I have given. But if it is somehow not equivalent to the analogy I have given, then I would still have to remain open minded towards the possibility that I really am repressing this knowledge.

[Justin108]

it is not my conclusion but my acceptance of a Biblical conclusion.

It is your conclusion that this is a Biblical conclusion. This is evident in the fact that no one else can find this conclusion in the Bible. There is a definite connection between you and this conclusion. Ergo, it is your conclusion

That is, no jumping was involved just careful scrutiny over years of the probable meanings of verses

Can you demonstrate that your interpretation is more probable than other interpretations?

...was involved to see which one most fit the revealed character of GOD and the story of redemption the best.

This is circular. The revealed character of God and the story of redemption are part of the Bible. They are part of the interpretation. How can you interpret the Bible by contrasting the Bible to the Bible?

To illustrate... suppose your interpretation of God is X. If you then interpret the Bible to fit your interpretation of God, yet your interpretation of God is based on your interpretation of the Bible, then it becomes circular.
- You interpret the Bible according to your interpretation of God.
- You interpret God according to your interpretation of the Bible.

So you consider it is possible that you saw the creation of the physical universe by which you learned that YHWH was indeed our Creator GOD and that you have repressed that memory because you are a sinner?

Ok so literally everyone on earth repressed this memory, right? We did it ourselves. We did it willingly. Yet every single one of us did it. Isn't that a rather massive coincidence that everyone on earth made the exact same decision to repress our memory? Not a single one of us decided "you know what... I'd rather keep my memory"

So either
a) this is a MASSIVE coincidence that everyone on earth made this exact same decision
b) our memories were not wiped by our own decision, but by God or someone else
c) we did not lose our memories and your entire theology is wrong
d) other (please specify)

It seems like you are still rejecting faith, HOPE without proof as a viable means of accessing GOD yet faith it the essential message of Christian theology...a faith you are refusing to accept.

Why is faith so important?