Why can't God make his presence known to me right now?

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I am a very open minded person and consider all possibilities. I am open to the possibility of a God and an afterlife. I am also open to the possibility that this God could be one who demands and expects that I obey and serve him or that I would be condemned to a horrible afterlife. I have been doing some open minded research on the subject of life after death. As of right now, it doesn't matter what anyone says to me or what claims other people present to me in regards to God's character, if he is real or not, or if I am a blind sinner or not.

The reason why it doesn't matter to me is because, like I said, I am very open minded right now and am open to alternative explanations of the things people offer up here. I am a very wise open minded individual and I do not jump to any given conclusion based upon some things I read online or a holy book such as the bible. There is so much more to look into and have an open mind to. Even things that sound very compelling cannot be trusted since there are plenty of things out there that sound compelling, but are actually not.

However, I have very little to no patience at all since I have no interest in doing research or in dedicating my life to a Christian or other religious lifestyle in order for God's presence to be known to me if he is real. That is no different than expecting me to dedicate my life to a certain career such as dentistry when I have no interest in that career. It is just an unfair and unrealistic expectation of me. If God is real and I really am a sinner who is in need of saving, then why can't God swoop into my mind right now and convince me he is real?

If it's because I am not worthy of a God who would be so frantic as to do all he could to convince me right here and now rather than expecting me to dedicate my life in trying to find him, then why did God even go through the trouble of inspiring a holy book or making a sacrifice for our sins? If he thought mankind was worthy of this and he so loved his human creations as to do this deed, then why can't he take it a step further and make his presence known to me right now considering I have no patience and no interest in seeking him out?

I have done what I could right now in trying to seek out the Lord if he is real and I am not going to do anymore because, like I said, I have no patience and no interest. But if God is real and I do meet him after I die and he says to me that I am a sinner who has one last chance to repent, then I would not be foolish. I would completely give myself unto the Lord right then and there. Any other way would result in a horrible afterlife of misery and there is no way I would choose that.

But considering the fact that I would have to dedicate my life in trying to seek out God and be convinced of his existence if he is real and considering the fact that there are so many people out there who have already done this with a truly open mind and heart and were still not convinced, then it is a waste of my time and I have no interest and no patience for this. As for those who were convinced in a reasonable time frame, then I have no way of knowing if their conviction was through a truly open mind or if they were close minded and just decided to believe God is real.

This lack of knowing further makes my point here that it is all a waste of my time. It's very unlikely that there would be any way to convince me because I have looked and researched into so much already with a truly open mind and heart and I just see nothing more than a vast sea of arguments and debates, but no conclusion being reached one way or another. This is yet another reason why this is all a waste of my time.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 40 by Justin108]

So you consider it is possible that you saw the creation of the physical universe by which you learned that YHWH was indeed our Creator GOD and that you have repressed that memory because you are a sinner?

I'm pretty sure I can remember in the past debating with ted, and he says something along the lines of we, in our pre-conception state didn't believe YHWH was our creator god.
Now all of a sudden, we actually DID believe YHWH to be Creator God?

Justin help me out here. Do you remember that, or am I going crazy?

[Justin108]

[Replying to post 40 by Justin108]

So you consider it is possible that you saw the creation of the physical universe by which you learned that YHWH was indeed our Creator GOD and that you have repressed that memory because you are a sinner?

I'm pretty sure I can remember in the past debating with ted, and he says something along the lines of we, in our pre-conception state didn't believe YHWH was our creator god.
Now all of a sudden, we actually DID believe YHWH to be Creator God?

Justin help me out here. Do you remember that, or am I going crazy?

I think the story goes that this YHWH dude showed up one day and told everyone he was God or something, and then some believed him and others didn't. Then YHWH showed everyone his superpowers and said "see I told you". So first we didn't believe, then he showed us. And then we got addicted to sin somehow... I'm still not sure how that last thing happened tho

[ttruscott]

Why is faith so important?

Faith is important to GOD in HIS search for a loving communion with a created spirit, a communion that is the basis for the marriage unity here on earth. After creating everyone in HIS image so HE could marry them, how could GOD find those who wanted what HE had to offer without coercing them to choose HIM just by HIS being GOD, (neither true love nor a real marriage can be coerced)? GOD let everyone choose their own relationship with HIM (their own fate) by faith which is a hope without proof, by a true free will choice. We all (self) chose our own destiny by faith, not knowing the proof of what we were choosing but with the deepest hope what we were choosing was true, thus indicating the importance faith has in the free will process and to our fates.

Faith has the unique characteristic of defining who we are and what we want that can't be duplicated by any other method.

Our hope and the depth of our faith / conviction in that hope separates us all in our relationship with GOD by a spectrum of self determined definition ranging from those who quickly and fully hoped deeply that YHWH was who HE claimed to be, to those who accepted because they hoped only to miss damnation, to those who refused to have faith in YHWH at all, putting their faith and hopes in HIM being a false god and a liar about heaven and hell. This was not just a mistake (though it was) but a commitment to this belief knowing that if HE proved HE was our god then they would end in hell, yet they still chose to reject HIM deeming hell better than a possible marriage with HIM in heaven.

Proof of HIS Deity being true or not before the choice was fully realized by a person would destroy their free will decision, that is, no one would choose hell if heaven and GOD were proven before they chose. And proof after the choices were over might urge those who rejected HIM to try to assuage their guilt by now saying, "Oh we see the proof, "Now we believe - we will marry you!" but they believe and want to marry HIM from fear of hell, not from any hope for a marriage in heaven with their GOD.

Therefore faith, not proof, defines the self, the deepest desires of the heart, what you want if you were in charge, (or some better way of saying it), while leaving the hope based faith totally free, without coercion. That is why faith based decisions with no proof to accept a reality without god, to many gods, to ONE TRUE GOD, to we are all god, have all developed. Our faith defines the kind of reality we most want for our happiness and thus we chose our own fate.

imCo

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 36 by onewithhim]

I wasn't talking about hell. Rather, I was having this debate. Hell was a concept I brought up, but didn't want to debate that right now. I instead was focusing here on this debate I was having since having this debate right now is what is important.

Your last paragraph in your post #33 shows that you brought the subject back to the table. OK...you want to keep bouncing, fine.

If you really get curious about "Hell," look up the website :


www.jw.org/en/search/?q=Hell

[The Transcended Omniverse]

[Replying to post 44 by onewithhim]

Thanks. Yes, I did bring up the concept of hell at first. However, the discussion/debate took a turn and this was the direction I was focusing on first.

[The Transcended Omniverse]

[Replying to post 43 by ttruscott]

I see you are back. Go ahead and respond to the reply I made to you when you get the chance.

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 40 by Justin108]

So you consider it is possible that you saw the creation of the physical universe by which you learned that YHWH was indeed our Creator GOD and that you have repressed that memory because you are a sinner?

I'm pretty sure I can remember in the past debating with ted, and he says something along the lines of we, in our pre-conception state didn't believe YHWH was our creator god.
Now all of a sudden, we actually DID believe YHWH to be Creator God?

Justin help me out here. Do you remember that, or am I going crazy?

You know, not every furry little black and white animal is a cat, some are skunks. Twisting what I claim is creating a skunk from my cat. My pov is changed to be meaningless then I am castigated for being meaningless???

The word believe, able to mean both certain knowledge of a truth and an uncertain knowledge that is accepted for awhile as true until proof is found is too vague to be useful here having too broad a spectrum. So I use the word faith instead. No one needs faith that the sun will come up as faith ends with proof while the word belief does not.

So, as I have written before, pre-earth we heard YHWH's claims to be our GOD and these claims were accepted or rejected by faith, a hope without proof that our acceptance or rejection of HIS claims would end in our well being. Since there was no proof, there was no knowing.

Then we all saw the proof of HIS deity and HIS power when we saw the creation of the physical universe and we all sang HIS praises. This proof created perfect knowledge. But once all sinners were sent to prison earth to keep them from the polite society of heaven, we all slowly repressed our memories (knowledge) of the proof because our love for sin was greater than our love for the truth. This includes the sinful believers and non-believers (rejecters) both. So knowledge came and went...

On earth, sinful believers are brought back to our first faith and as it re-grows in us, it slowly becomes a conviction of truth until some claim that it can be truthfully described as certain knowledge again which I was trying to describe.

[ttruscott]

So first we didn't believe, then he showed us. And then we got addicted to sin somehow... I'm still not sure how that last thing happened tho

All our "getting addicted to sin" happened before we saw the proof because it entailed a rejection of HIS deity which would never have happened if we had first seen the proof. Rejecting HIS claims to deity as the lies of a false god was the first evil, starting the miasma of sin that changed people's natures due to the enslaving addictive quality of evil.

Everyone got to choose what reality they thought, hoped, they were living in; one with a GOD, one with no GOD, one in which we are all Gods, etc. Our commitment to these ideas is the reason for all of HIS responses to us and how HE treats us, that is, we formed our fates by these decisions. That is how we became addicted to evil, by our own choice.

[Zzyzx]

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Then we all saw the proof of HIS deity and HIS power when we saw the creation of the physical universe and we all sang HIS praises.

Heck, I must have missed that show

But those who claim to have been there must have seen quite a performance -- OR they have a well-developed imagination and/or a talent for storytelling.

How can it be determined if the claims are anything more than human imagination?

[onewithhim]

.

Then we all saw the proof of HIS deity and HIS power when we saw the creation of the physical universe and we all sang HIS praises.

Heck, I must have missed that show

But those who claim to have been there must have seen quite a performance -- OR they have a well-developed imagination and/or a talent for storytelling.

How can it be determined if the claims are anything more than human imagination?

I missed the show, too, by a few billion years.

There is no evidence in the Scriptures that any of us existed prior to our being born on Earth. Some folks here have amazing imaginations.


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