Hey Christians... What's up with the whole OT thing?

tryme · Post by **tryme** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:29 pm

Well. In my experience, most Christians haven't even read the Bible, let alone the old testament which has some clearly heinous laws and practices accepted to be immoral and illogical by the most sound-minded people, including Christians. Many have left Christianity after actually reading the Bible in its entirety (including me).

My favorites are:
1. God commanding children to be stoned for disobedience
2. God commanding babies to be dashed against rocks
3. God commanding virgins to be kidnapped and raped
4. Punishing the victim
5. Polygamy
6. if anyone actually reads this post I am happy grow the list ad naseam

So here are my direct questions, besides any other comments you may have:
1. Do you think these OT acts and commands were moral before Jesus came?
2. How do you rectify the fact that Jesus said "I have come to fulfill the law, not abolish it. Not a single stroke of the law will disappear" ?
3. Have you ever read the Old Testament?

Wootah · Post by **Wootah** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:02 am

Hey tryme are you sure of your ground in your questions?

For instance God didn't command babies to be dashed against rocks.

Psalm 137 is the cry of the Israelites to God in anguish after their destruction by the Babylonians.

Are you also willing to subtract from your list as needed?

tryme · Post by **tryme** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:03 pm

[Replying to Wootah]

Yeah sure! I'll also change the list to directly allude to the verses that either order or condone violence against Innocents. He does say â€“ them against the ground, not rocks. So apologies on the noun.

Hosea 13:16

tryme · Post by **tryme** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:09 pm

[Replying to Wootah]

I would also follow up and ask how can someone who is a suppose to be. man of God chosen and elect and distinctly unique in his godliness, feel justified or even have a thought of dashing a baby against a rock? Such a thought would never and has never even occurred to me despite the many egregious offenses I've endured.

Wootah · Post by **Wootah** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:43 am

[Replying to post 3 by tryme]

Please do. But let's resolve one issue at a time.

Wootah · Post by **Wootah** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:51 am

tryme wrote: [Replying to Wootah]

I would also follow up and ask how can someone who is a suppose to be. man of God chosen and elect and distinctly unique in his godliness, feel justified or even have a thought of dashing a baby against a rock? Such a thought would never and has never even occurred to me despite the many egregious offenses I've endured.

I'm pretty sure the Israelites went through worse. I haven't. You may have.

But you're the one making a lot of assumptions there. The psalm records the feelings of the people at that time. I use it as proof that there is nothing I can't share with God. That there is no pain I can't share.

Think of the psalm like someone saying "why I could kill that guy for cutting me off in traffic". Anger and frustration. It's not a command from God and it's not what a holy or righteous person thinks. It's a record of anguish.

So has your perspective changed on this one?

tryme · Post by **tryme** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:57 pm

Wootah wrote:
tryme wrote: [Replying to Wootah]

It's not a command from God and it's not what a holy or righteous person thinks. It's a record of anguish.

So has your perspective changed on this one?

I get that perspective of it being simply an honest expression, and I concede that in this case it's not a command, but are you saying that the person that wrote this psalm was not a holy or righteous person?

tryme · Post by **tryme** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:31 pm

Wootah wrote:
tryme wrote: [Replying to Wootah]

Think of the psalm like someone saying "why I could kill that guy for cutting me off in traffic". Anger and frustration. It's not a command from God and it's not what a holy or righteous person thinks. It's a record of anguish.
So what you're saying is that this psalm is a hyperbole? Not to be read literally?

Wootah · Post by **Wootah** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:41 pm

[Replying to post 7 by tryme]

Would a 'holy or righteous person' omit how they felt or not? What should they write about? Wouldn't it be far worse if he wrote after the Babylonians murderd my family I just wanted to help raise their children.

And as the bible also says : who is good, there are none.

All scripture is believed to be a god breathed but most of those holy men in the bible committed a lot of wicked sins as well.

tryme · Post by **tryme** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:59 pm

[Replying to post 6 by Wootah]

1. Defend these commands/laws as just and moral
2. Defend these as congruent with Jesus' message of love

God's Commands/laws:
1. Troubled kid? Kill him - Leviticus 20:9
2. Homosexual? Kill them - Leviticus 20:13
3. Rapist? Kill them! No, actually this one gets to live. And Don't worry your rapist will purchase you as property and own you for the rest of your life. Deuteronomy 22:28-29

2. Going to war? Kill everyone but the virgins everyone but the virgins, and use them for your own

Debating Christianity and Religion

Hey Christians... What's up with the whole OT thing?

Hey Christians... What's up with the whole OT thing?

New List of OT topics and commands