Messiah's 2nd Coming?

[Elijah John]

Was the doctrine of the 2nd coming of Jesus forumulated because he failed to accomplish Messianic expectations the first time around? I.e., universal peace and justice, the redemption of Israel from it's enemies?

Where was it written in the "Old" Testament/Hebrew Bible that the Messiah would need to come twice to accomplish his Messianic role?

[onewithhim]

Was the doctrine of the 2nd coming of Jesus forumulated because he failed to accomplish Messianic expectations the first time around? I.e., universal peace and justice, the redemption of Israel from it's enemies?

Where was it written in the "Old" Testament/Hebrew Bible that the Messiah would need to come twice to accomplish his Messianic role?

Isaiah 53 tells us that the Messiah would be hated and killed, so the Scriptures do not indicate that the Messiah would completely clean up the mess that the world was in when he first came.

Verses 10 and 11 indicate that, even though he would die, he would eventually have his days prolonged....thus hinting at his resurrection. That he would fulfill the plan of world peace and justice is also indicated in those verses:

"In his hand what is the delight of Jehovah will succeed. Because of the trouble of his soul he will see, he will be satisfied. By the knowing of him, the righteous one, my servant, will bring a righteous standing to many people; and their errors he will bear."

So he was not meant to bring total peace and justice the first time around. That he would do so eventually is clear when other Scriptures are read. E.g., Isaiah 11:1-10 speaks of the time when righteousness WILL rule and the earth will be a place just like God planned in the beginning.

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[polonius]

Was the doctrine of the 2nd coming of Jesus forumulated because he failed to accomplish Messianic expectations the first time around? I.e., universal peace and justice, the redemption of Israel from it's enemies?

Where was it written in the "Old" Testament/Hebrew Bible that the Messiah would need to come twice to accomplish his Messianic role?

Isaiah 53 tells us that the Messiah would be hated and killed, so the Scriptures do not indicate that the Messiah would completely clean up the mess that the world was in when he first came.

Verses 10 and 11 indicate that, even though he would die, he would eventually have his days prolonged....thus hinting at his resurrection. That he would fulfill the plan of world peace and justice is also indicated in those verses:

"In his hand what is the delight of Jehovah will succeed. Because of the trouble of his soul he will see, he will be satisfied. By the knowing of him, the righteous one, my servant, will bring a righteous standing to many people; and their errors he will bear."

So he was not meant to bring total peace and justice the first time around. That he would do so eventually is clear when other Scriptures are read. E.g., Isaiah 11:1-10 speaks of the time when righteousness WILL rule and the earth will be a place just like God planned in the beginning.

.

QUESTION: Where in Isaiah does it say that the Suffering Servant would be killed?

[onewithhim]

Was the doctrine of the 2nd coming of Jesus forumulated because he failed to accomplish Messianic expectations the first time around? I.e., universal peace and justice, the redemption of Israel from it's enemies?

Where was it written in the "Old" Testament/Hebrew Bible that the Messiah would need to come twice to accomplish his Messianic role?

Isaiah 53 tells us that the Messiah would be hated and killed, so the Scriptures do not indicate that the Messiah would completely clean up the mess that the world was in when he first came.

Verses 10 and 11 indicate that, even though he would die, he would eventually have his days prolonged....thus hinting at his resurrection. That he would fulfill the plan of world peace and justice is also indicated in those verses:

"In his hand what is the delight of Jehovah will succeed. Because of the trouble of his soul he will see, he will be satisfied. By the knowing of him, the righteous one, my servant, will bring a righteous standing to many people; and their errors he will bear."

So he was not meant to bring total peace and justice the first time around. That he would do so eventually is clear when other Scriptures are read. E.g., Isaiah 11:1-10 speaks of the time when righteousness WILL rule and the earth will be a place just like God planned in the beginning.

.

QUESTION: Where in Isaiah does it say that the Suffering Servant would be killed?

"He was despised and was avoided by men, a man meant for pains and for having acquaintance with sickness....He was despised, and we held him as of no account. Truly our sicknesses were what he himself carried; and as for our pains, he bore them. But we accounted him as plagued, stricken by God and afflicted. But he was being pierced for our transgression; he was being crushed for our errors....He was hard-pressed, and he was letting himself be afflicted...He was being just like sheep to the slaughtering....He was severed from the land of the living. Because of the transgression of my people he had the stroke. And he will make his BURIAL PLACE even with the wicked ones...."

(Isaiah 53:3b-5,7a,8b-9)

[dio9]

ya know, I fear even if God's Messiah comes again no governments presidents dictators or kings will follow him. the personal greed selfishness and fears in them are just too great.

[JehovahsWitness]

ya know, I fear even if God's Messiah comes again no governments presidents dictators or kings will follow him. the personal greed selfishness and fears in them are just too great.

Jesus doesn't come back to "ask" the kings of the earth if they would mind possibly if it's not too much trouble and if they feel inclined to pass over their power.

DANIEL 2:44
“In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever

[onewithhim]

ya know, I fear even if God's Messiah comes again no governments presidents dictators or kings will follow him. the personal greed selfishness and fears in them are just too great.

Exactly! That is why God Himself has to set up His own government, CRUSHING all other governments. Human governments will never allow all of mankind to live in equality and peace.

Daniel 2:44


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[polonius]

Was the doctrine of the 2nd coming of Jesus forumulated because he failed to accomplish Messianic expectations the first time around? I.e., universal peace and justice, the redemption of Israel from it's enemies?

Where was it written in the "Old" Testament/Hebrew Bible that the Messiah would need to come twice to accomplish his Messianic role?

Isaiah 53 tells us that the Messiah would be hated and killed, so the Scriptures do not indicate that the Messiah would completely clean up the mess that the world was in when he first came.

Verses 10 and 11 indicate that, even though he would die, he would eventually have his days prolonged....thus hinting at his resurrection. That he would fulfill the plan of world peace and justice is also indicated in those verses:

"In his hand what is the delight of Jehovah will succeed. Because of the trouble of his soul he will see, he will be satisfied. By the knowing of him, the righteous one, my servant, will bring a righteous standing to many people; and their errors he will bear."

So he was not meant to bring total peace and justice the first time around. That he would do so eventually is clear when other Scriptures are read. E.g., Isaiah 11:1-10 speaks of the time when righteousness WILL rule and the earth will be a place just like God planned in the beginning.

.

QUESTION: Where in Isaiah does it say that the Suffering Servant would be killed?

"He was despised and was avoided by men, a man meant for pains and for having acquaintance with sickness....He was despised, and we held him as of no account. Truly our sicknesses were what he himself carried; and as for our pains, he bore them. But we accounted him as plagued, stricken by God and afflicted. But he was being pierced for our transgression; he was being crushed for our errors....He was hard-pressed, and he was letting himself be afflicted...He was being just like sheep to the slaughtering....He was severed from the land of the living. Because of the transgression of my people he had the stroke. And he will make his BURIAL PLACE even with the wicked ones...."

(Isaiah 53:3b-5,7a,8b-9)

RESPONSE: I'm afraid that Isaiah 53 has nothing to do with the Messiah, although Christian apologists ignore the complete contents and try to claim a prophecy of Jesus

The suffering servant is clearly identified and he is to have a long life and many children.

http://www.aish.com/sp/ph/Isaiah_53_The ... rvant.html

“You are My servant, O Israel� (41:8)

“You are My servant, Israel� (49:3)

see also Isaiah 44:1, 44:2, 44:21, 45:4, 48:20

The Bible is filled with other references to the Jewish people as God’s “servant�; see Jeremiah 30:10, 46:27-28; Psalms 136:22. There is no reason that the “servant� in Isaiah 53 would suddenly switch and refer to someone other than the Jewish people.

Isaiah 53:5 is a classic example of mistranslation: The verse does not say, “He was wounded for our transgressions and crushed for our iniquities,� which could convey the vicarious suffering ascribed to Jesus. Rather, the proper translation is: “He was wounded because of our transgressions, and crushed because of our iniquities.� This conveys that the Servant suffered as a result of the sinfulness of others – not the opposite as Christians contend – that the Servant suffered to atone for the sins of others.
וֹ

The phrase, "land of the living� (Eretz HaChaim) refers specifically to the Land of Israel. Thus this verse, “He was removed from the land of the living,� does not mean that the servant was killed, but rather was exiled from the Land of Israel.


ויהוָה חָפֵץ דַּכְּ�וֹ הֶחֱלִי �ִ� תָּשִׂי� �ָש�ָ� נַפְש�וֹ יִרְ�ֶה זֶרַע יַ�ֲרִיךְ יָמִי� וְחֵפֶץ יְהוָה בְּיָדוֹ יִצְלָח

"God desired to oppress� the Jewish people, in order to inspire them to return to Torah observance. If the Jews would only "acknowledge guilt," they would see their "offspring and live long days." This refers to the Messianic era when all Jews will return to Torah observance.

This verse emphasizes that the Servant is to be rewarded with long life and many children. This verse could not possibly refer to Jesus who, according to the New Testament, died young and childless. (Furthermore, if Jesus was alleged to be the immortal Son of God, it is absurd to apply the concept of “living long days.�)

[marco]

Isaiah 53 tells us that the Messiah would be hated and killed, so the Scriptures do not indicate that the Messiah would completely clean up the mess that the world was in when he first came.

No, Isaiah tells YOU this. Verses 10 and 11 give NO identification with Jesus, though we can try to extract meaning from them that applies, which is what you are doing. Prophecy is made in such a general way that various seekers can find a message that suits them. "Jesus Christ will die at 33, crucified, and he will return from the dead." No matter how hard I try I cannot find these words, which would be clear. Instead we get:

"Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him." What pleasure did the Lord get, then, from "bruising" his son? This sentence can apply to anyone who suffered for proclaiming God's message. It applies to Muhammad.

It would help, when you quote Scripture, to indicate that what you extract from it is your own interpretation, not what the words actually say.

E.g., Isaiah 11:1-10 speaks of the time when righteousness WILL rule and the earth will be a place just like God planned in the beginning.

Your vision is of God's plans being muddled, and then he gets back on course. The verses you refer to start: "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse and a branch shall grow out of its roots." That's clear, then!

It goes on: "And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins." Yep, that applies to millions of good people.

And the conclusion, of startling clarity, is:
"And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious."

It is ridiculous to extract anything of certainty from this muddle of words.

So when we hear Christ saying: "I'll be back soon," it is unhelpful to refer to prophecy. We can find there nothing but our own wishes.

[marco]

Was the doctrine of the 2nd coming of Jesus forumulated because he failed to accomplish Messianic expectations the first time around? I.e., universal peace and justice, the redemption of Israel from it's enemies?

Where was it written in the "Old" Testament/Hebrew Bible that the Messiah would need to come twice to accomplish his Messianic role?

You would have thought that a messenger from God, spending some thirty odd years on the planet, would have had time to accomplish God's mission. He lingered for a very long time before stirring himself to fulfil God's plan. And then, after a brief three-year period, he announced his immanent return. It is an unfulfilled promise that seems to suggest Jesus himself thought he would return soon. The ornate interpretations placed on his message would be absurd to his listeners who required explanations for some fairly simple parables.

Jesus was a favoured missionary, it would seem, a fine orator caught up in the ways of his time. There is no indication he was a god. His wonders were worked by the power he acknowledged, the Father.