"Because of what Jesus accomplished on the Cross"

[Elijah John]

American Standard Version John 20.17

"Jesus saith to her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended unto the Father: but go unto my brethren, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God."

TBN preacher's interpretation of this verse:

Because of what Jesus accomplished on the cross, we can now call God "our God" and we can call Jesus' Father, "Our Father".

For debate:

Is the right to call YHVH "our God and Father" tied to the cross, as the preacher suggests?

Did Jesus himself teach that YHVH can be called our "God and Father" because of what he was to accomplish on the cross?

[bluethread]

No, Eloheim and Abba are used in referring to Adonai in the Tanach. Even though the first record of this use of Abba is when Moshe' says rhetorically, "Is not he thy father that hath bought thee?" This implies that it was an understood concept even before that. In fact, Hosea tells us, “Yet the Israelites will be like the sand on the seashore, which cannot be measured or counted. In the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ they will be called ‘children of the living God.’ "

[Elijah John]

No, Eloheim and Abba are used in referring to Adonai in the Tanach. Even though the first record of this use of Abba is when Moshe' says rhetorically, "Is not he thy father that hath bought thee?" This implies that it was an understood concept even before that. In fact, Hosea tells us, “Yet the Israelites will be like the sand on the seashore, which cannot be measured or counted. In the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ they will be called ‘children of the living God.’ "

Exactly. And Yahshua himself teaches to "love YHVH thy God" and "Our Father" not "my Father, who art in Heaven". And this long before the crucifixion was on the horizon.

Seems another case of a preacher's theology obscuring (or distorting) the actual teachings of Yahshua.

[bluethread]

[Replying to post 3 by Elijah John]

Evangelicals do this all the time. Salesmanship is more important than accuracy and consistency. As they say, ""If just one person is saved . . . "

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 3 by Elijah John]

Evangelicals do this all the time. Salesmanship is more important than accuracy and consistency. As they say, ""If just one person is saved . . . "

I get it, the ends justify the means. As though salvation is in their hands, and not in the hands of the Almighty.

[dio9]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

TBN 's broadcast preaching's are an extreme Christian view. I for one don't believe God sent Jesus tom be crucified. That said being the Messiah had the danger which he suffered. There are different views on what happened that night he was arrested. Remember , he was betrayed. This means he would not have been taken otherwise. Jesus did not want to be taken. As evidenced by his prayer to be spared the ordeal. Never the less he rose from the dead. To my mind it is not the crucifixion but the resurrection in which we find our salvation.

[marco]

he was betrayed. This means he would not have been taken otherwise.

It doesn't mean this at all. Judas led the group to the place where Jesus was. Had it not been in Gethsemane it would have been elsewhere that the authorities caught him, with or without Judas, who acts only as a pawn in the game.

To my mind it is not the crucifixion but the resurrection in which we find our salvation.

Paul would agree. But I find it hard to see a link between this miracle and human salvation. They have no logical connection, but that's by the way.

[marco]

"Jesus saith to her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended unto the Father: but go unto my brethren, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God."

Many artists including Correggio and Titian have depicted "noli me tangere" which on the surface means "do not touch me" but may have the deeper meaning of "don't cling on to me.... let me go."

That would suggest that his missionary work on earth was over. He was no longer to be the focus of attention; the Father was. There is nothing that suggests he was going to take his place as God. His work was over - leave him be but remember his message.