Questions for Christians

[agnosticatheist]

Would you be with your daughter being held guilty until proven innocent after being accused by her husband of not being a virgin on her wedding night?

If not, why not?

Would you be ok with your daughter being stoned to death at your door if she were found to be guilty of the aforementioned "crime" based on a dubious, unfair, irrational, and unjust method of determining if the accused is guilty or not?

Would you be ok with your infant child being put to death with a sword?

If not, why not?

Would you be ok with your wife's hand being cut off as punishment for a crime?

If not, why not?

[1213]

Would you be with your daughter being held guilty until proven innocent after being accused by her husband of not being a virgin on her wedding night?

If not, why not?

Would you be ok with your daughter being stoned to death at your door if she were found to be guilty of the aforementioned "crime" based on a dubious, unfair, irrational, and unjust method of determining if the accused is guilty or not? …

If person would be attempted to be judged according to the law of Moses, I think the judge should be set by God, as the Bible tells. Not all have right to judge. For example, it is said for disciples of Jesus:

"Don't judge, so that you won't be judged. For with whatever judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with whatever measure you measure, it will be measured to you."
Mat. 7:1-2

Then, if there would be really lawful judge, he would obviously be righteous, and notice these:

"Thus has Yahweh of Hosts spoken, saying, 'Execute true judgment, and show kindness and compassion every man to his brother.
Zechariah 7:9
I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brothers, and judge righteously between a man and his brother, and the foreigner who is living with him. You shall not show partiality in judgment; you shall hear the small and the great alike; you shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, you shall bring to me, and I will hear it.
Deuteronomy 1:16-17
"You shall not spread a false report. Don't join your hand with the wicked to be a malicious witness. You shall not follow a crowd to do evil; neither shall you testify in court to side with a multitude to pervert justice; neither shall you favor a poor man in his cause.
Exodus 23:1-3
At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he who is to die be put to death; at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.
Deuteronomy 17:6

On basis of those, I would expect at least two true witnesses and a judge set by God. If after that the judgement would be what the Bible tells, I would accept it and be sad, if the person has done wrongly and is not righteous.

[Zzyzx]

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[Replying to post 31 by 1213]

Thanks for presenting readers with a religious perspective on these matters.

.

Would you be with your daughter being held guilty until proven innocent after being accused by her husband of not being a virgin on her wedding night?

If not, why not?

Would you be ok with your daughter being stoned to death at your door if she were found to be guilty of the aforementioned "crime" based on a dubious, unfair, irrational, and unjust method of determining if the accused is guilty or not? …

If person would be attempted to be judged according to the law of Moses,

What persons are 'judged according to the law of Moses'? To whom does that apply?

I think the judge should be set by God, as the Bible tells.

How, exactly, are judges 'set by God'? Have judges been 'set by God' during the past 2000 years? If so, examples -- with evidence that 'God' was actually involved.

Not all have right to judge.

I TAKE the right to judge the character and veracity of people with whom I associate or do business. It would be exceedingly naive and gullible to NOT make such judgments. I do NOT fear or attempt to avoid being 'judged' on the merits of what I say and do.

Then, if there would be really lawful judge, he would obviously be righteous, and notice these:

How would a 'lawful judge' be recognized as being 'set by God'?

On basis of those, I would expect at least two true witnesses and a judge set by God. If after that the judgement would be what the Bible tells, I would accept it and be sad, if the person has done wrongly and is not righteous.

Thus, if a woman has intercourse while not married you would accept that she has 'done wrongly and is not righteous' and deserves to be killed as the Bible says (if two 'witnesses' testify against her before a 'judge set by God'). Right?

It is certainly fortunate that Christianity and Judaism are now constrained by more rational national laws and are no longer permitted to execute people for breaking religious 'laws' -- and fortunate that no 'gods' have 'set' any judges.

The modern examples of theocracy run amok are some of the Islamic countries.


Do people actually, really, in this world, in the 21st century BELIEVE this stuff -- or is it just something said attempting to justify Bible tales?

Do people believe that any judges are 'set by God'?

Would they actually, really, in this world, in the 21st century accept a woman being killed for 'committing adultery', or a woman killed for not being a virgin on her wedding night, or children killed for being disobedient (even extremely and blatantly so)? - - - KILLED?

[1213]

What persons are 'judged according to the law of Moses'? To whom does that apply?

The law was given to Jews, so logically it would apply to all Jews.

How, exactly, are judges 'set by God'? Have judges been 'set by God' during the past 2000 years?

I don’t think so, else I think we wouldn’t live in this world that accepts abortion (murdering babies that are not even born yet).

How would a 'lawful judge' be recognized as being 'set by God'?

That could be difficult to know. The judge would be righteous, but it is not easy to see who is really righteous. Because of what Jesus says, I wouldn’t believe anyone who claims to be judge set by God.

Thus, if a woman has intercourse while not married you would accept that she has 'done wrongly and is not righteous' and deserves to be killed as the Bible says (if two 'witnesses' testify against her before a 'judge set by God'). Right?

I accept that unrighteous people don’t live forever. But I am not right person to say who should die.

Would they actually, really, in this world, in the 21st century accept a woman being killed for 'committing adultery',

It is not only women, also men who commit adultery deserve death according to the Bible. Adultery is evil and unloving action, should evil people live forever?

[Zzyzx]

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What persons are 'judged according to the law of Moses'? To whom does that apply?

The law was given to Jews, so logically it would apply to all Jews.

Why, then, are Christians at all concerned with anything from the Old Testament?

Are Christians just 'watered down Jews' as some have claimed?

How, exactly, are judges 'set by God'? Have judges been 'set by God' during the past 2000 years?

I don’t think so, else I think we wouldn’t live in this world that accepts abortion (murdering babies that are not even born yet).

According to what you say above, that only applies to Jews. Right?

How would a 'lawful judge' be recognized as being 'set by God'?

That could be difficult to know. The judge would be righteous, but it is not easy to see who is really righteous. Because of what Jesus says, I wouldn’t believe anyone who claims to be judge set by God.

Okay, no one who can be trusted as a judge 'set by God' -- for thousands of years.

Thus, if a woman has intercourse while not married you would accept that she has 'done wrongly and is not righteous' and deserves to be killed as the Bible says (if two 'witnesses' testify against her before a 'judge set by God'). Right?

I accept that unrighteous people don’t live forever. But I am not right person to say who should die.

Is this to say that if some group starts killing women for being adulteresses or for not being virgins at marriage you do not feel qualified to say that they should not be killed?

Would they actually, really, in this world, in the 21st century accept a woman being killed for 'committing adultery',

It is not only women, also men who commit adultery deserve death according to the Bible.

Is that in the Christian part of the Bible (NT) or the Jewish part (OT)?

Are EITHER Christians or Jews bound by the Bible to accept as right (or 'righteous') or approve of killing people for 'committing adultery'?

Can you use personal judgment and real world knowledge / experience to decide that killing people for 'adultery' is NOT grounds for killing them? OR, are you compelled to go along with what Bible writers said thousands of years ago?

Fortunately there are many Atheists (and perhaps some Christians and Jews) who are willing to use judgment / discernment / experience to override what 'the Bible says' to do -- and to create a social system that does not allow such things.

Adultery is evil and unloving action,

Opinion noted. Not everyone agrees with you.

Kindly show verifiable evidence that the claim is true in the real world.

should evil people live forever?

Heck no -- let's kill all the nasty Christians who commit one of the Seven Deadly Sins

Lust
Gluttony
Greed
Sloth
Wrath
Envy
Pride

Gluttony alone should get rid of about two-thirds of US Christians (according to national statistics on overweight rates).

[1213]

Are EITHER Christians or Jews bound by the Bible to accept as right (or 'righteous') or approve of killing people for 'committing adultery'?

I think person who is Christian (disciple of Jesus) or Jew agrees with the Bible, else I don’t see how he could be considered as Jew or Christian.

Can you use personal judgment and real world knowledge / experience to decide that killing people for 'adultery' is NOT grounds for killing them? OR, are you compelled to go along with what Bible writers said thousands of years ago?

In my opinion people are able and free to make whatever decisions they want. It still doesn’t change what the Bible teaches about good and right. Adultery is one sign that person is not righteous and death is the wage of unrighteousness (=sin).

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

The acts are not the core reason, because they are only fruits of the “mind�. If the “mind� is evil, it produces unloving actions. And that is the real problem. Letting evil person live, will cause more evil. That is why it can be seen ok to end evil life, to prevent more evilness. But people make also mistakes, even righteous person may make mistakes. That is why I think judge has to be really careful and also really know well how to judge righteously with evidence and proof. And all though some action can be wrong, Bible encourages to be merciful:

"Thus has Yahweh of Hosts spoken, saying, 'Execute true judgment, and show kindness and compassion every man to his brother.
Zechariah 7:9

Don't judge, And you won't be judged. Don't condemn, And you won't be condemned. Set free, And you will be set free.
Luke 6:37

I am not right person to judge. I have not enough knowledge for that and I have no right for that. And I don’t think any other human has that. That is why I think people should not judge by the Law of Moses.

Fortunately there are many Atheists (and perhaps some Christians and Jews) who are willing to use judgment / discernment / experience to override what 'the Bible says' to do -- and to create a social system that does not allow such things.

In Finland that seems to have led to system that gives almost no value to person who has been murdered or raped. Same system encourages to murder unborn babies and doesn’t think it is criminal to murder babies. I don’t see it very good or just.

Adultery is evil and unloving action,

Opinion noted. Not everyone agrees with you.

Kindly show verifiable evidence that the claim is true in the real world.

Person who loves other, doesn’t do anything wrong to other. Adultery is wrong, because it breaks the promise. But obviously, that may be subjective opinion for many.

Heck no -- let's kill all the nasty Christians who commit one of the Seven Deadly Sins

Lust
Gluttony
Greed
Sloth
Wrath
Envy
Pride

Gluttony alone should get rid of about two-thirds of US Christians (according to national statistics on overweight rates).

Does the Bible tell that person who has done those, should be judged to death?

[Danmark]

Are EITHER Christians or Jews bound by the Bible to accept as right (or 'righteous') or approve of killing people for 'committing adultery'?

I think person who is Christian (disciple of Jesus) or Jew agrees with the Bible, else I don’t see how he could be considered as Jew or Christian.

This statement is nothing short of idolatry. It makes an idol of the Bible, as if the Bible comes before God, before Jesus, and before the truth. This statement puts the Bible ahead of God. If God himself came down to Earth and said, "I did not write the Bible and it is wrong,' this analysis by 1213 would conclude God was wrong because he did not agree with the Bible.

[Zzyzx]

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Are EITHER Christians or Jews bound by the Bible to accept as right (or 'righteous') or approve of killing people for 'committing adultery'?

I think person who is Christian (disciple of Jesus) or Jew agrees with the Bible, else I don’t see how he could be considered as Jew or Christian.

Notice there IS a difference between 'bound by' and 'agrees with'.

Bound by means 'under a legal or moral obligation'. That is a wee bit more than 'agrees with'.

Are Christians or Jews 'under a legal or moral obligation' (via the Bible) to accept as right (or 'righteous') or approve of killing people for 'committing adultery'?

Care to try actually answering a direct question with a direct answer? Or, is that too difficult?

Being evasive is understandable. Answering yes is obviously in conflict with the real world we inhabit. Answering no acknowledges that there is no moral obligation to do as told by the Bible.

Christians and Jews apparently deal with this dilemma by CLAIMING to follow the Bible -- but actually ONLY following some parts and ignoring others (while acting as though they are sanctimonious and 'righteous').

It appears to me as though Christianity made a big mistake in clinging to the Jewish Torah rather than developing a separate theology for the new religion. Had that been the chosen route, Christianity would not be burdened with attempting to defend fanciful tales and irrational 'words from God' inherited from Judaism.

At the present time significant portions of Christianity appear to be distancing themselves from a literal belief in the Bible and toward more rational positions. That may be too little too late to stop the decline.

[1213]

Are Christians or Jews 'under a legal or moral obligation' (via the Bible) to accept as right (or 'righteous') or approve of killing people for 'committing adultery'?

I have no reason to think they are 'under a legal or moral obligation', therefore my answer is no.