Why does God punish innocent people?

[tryme]

So, here's the thing. If the Bible is the perfect word of God, and leaves no room for guessing, why does God not save babies? Or people who have never even heard of the name Jesus? Or even been out of the jungle for that matter? And what about the mentally ill, who cannot learn your religion? Or how about babies that die before they can even speak? Jesus clearly says that unbelievers, regardless of why they don't believe, will be enjoying their afterlife in hell.

Romans 10:9-10
ok, well what if you are born mute? Or were never instructed in what to believ by no fault of your own besides the country you were born in?

Revelation 21:8
Cowardly? Really? If you're like, an abused child and so are a bit timid, you're going to hell?

[onewithhim]

So, here's the thing. If the Bible is the perfect word of God, and leaves no room for guessing, why does God not save babies? Or people who have never even heard of the name Jesus? Or even been out of the jungle for that matter? And what about the mentally ill, who cannot learn your religion? Or how about babies that die before they can even speak? Jesus clearly says that unbelievers, regardless of why they don't believe, will be enjoying their afterlife in hell.

Romans 10:9-10
ok, well what if you are born mute? Or were never instructed in what to believ by no fault of your own besides the country you were born in?

Revelation 21:8
Cowardly? Really? If you're like, an abused child and so are a bit timid, you're going to hell?

God doesn't save babies at this point in time (though I'm sure it breaks his heart), because humans long ago gave him the finger and turned their backs on him because they wanted to call their own shots. Humans said, "We want to decide for ourselves what is good or what is bad." They made themselves just like God, living with THEIR OWN rules and regulations. So God let humans go their own way. There is a time limit on this crazy world's insanity, however. God has set a certain point in time to bring all suffering and evil to an end. It is just hard for us to be patient, because it seems like a long time to us.

People who have never heard about Jesus or Jehovah, the mentally ill, babies that die---they will all be given the chance to learn in the new system of things under Jesus Christ's rule of a thousand years. (Rev.20:4,6) Jehovah will not have anyone die who has not had a chance to make an informed decision about whether or not they want to submit to His standards (which are not burdensome; I John 5:3). He wants everyone to live.

There is no "afterlife." There is death and then there is the Resurrection, when everyone who has died will be brought back to life. The dead are conscious of nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5). They just "sleep" in their graves until Jesus calls them out. Hell-fire does not exist. Fire is a metaphor for non-existence. What happens to a piece of paper when it is set afire? PHHHHTTT!! Completely gone. That is why fire is used to symbolize annihilation.



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[ttruscott]

So, here's the thing. If the Bible is the perfect word of God, and leaves no room for guessing, why does God not save babies?

God does NOT punish innocent people. All are sinful everyone, even babies.

Only the guilty suffer or die.
No innocents suffer or die.

As well, the perfect word of GOD obviously leaves a lot of room for guessing and your definition of perfect as not having room for guessing is made up and doesn't match what we read in the Bible at all.

Or people who have never even heard of the name Jesus? Or even been out of the jungle for that matter?

Everyone has heard the gospel of salvation as found in HIS Son, so they are without excuse: Rom 1:20 they have seen the proof of HIS deity and HIS power. Christians also have no problem with this question as the gospel, the good news of the possibility of our salvation from the addicting qualities of evil and the condemnation upon evil in Christ was proclaimed (past tense) to every person under heaven: Colossians 1:23 ...if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven... Even you...

And what about the mentally ill, who cannot learn your religion? Or how about babies that die before they can even speak?

The only way that every creature under heaven could hear the gospel is if they were all created together before the creation of the physical universe and heard the gospel in that place at that time and then they saw the creation of the universe and all sang HIS praises, Job 38:7. By this creation they were perfectly capable of all choosing to become holy in GOD's sight but some chose to reject HIM, becoming evil and that evil follows them into their lives as human as people with corrupted intellects and morals. An elect person who is mentally incapable of understanding the gospel will be saved and the greatest mind in the universe that is not elect will be damned... salvation doesn't depend on a proper understanding of anything but on your relationship with YHWH.

Jesus clearly says that unbelievers, regardless of why they don't believe, will be enjoying their afterlife in hell.

Jesus also says that those who believe are not condemned but unbelievers are condemned already in this life because they have not believed the truth about HIM. John 3:18. Nothing a person can do can save himself from sin and judgement and nothing a person does condemns him to hell since he is condemned already when he gets here as a person of the evil one: Matt 13:36-39.

Romans 10:9-10 ok, well what if you are born mute? Or were never instructed in what to believ by no fault of your own besides the country you were born in?

Do you really think that GOD sets the rules as super strict then creates people who cannot follow the rules then damns them for not following??? This idea is not Christianity, it is lies about Christianity that have conned you. Someone is selling you a bridge next...

Revelation 21:8 Cowardly? Really? If you're like, an abused child and so are a bit timid, you're going to hell?

There is no way that this refers to a timid child, or to worldly fear, an idea that has no support in the rest of scripture in the least. It refers to one who cannot face the rigors of living a life fighting sin or the tragedy that a family member might be damned while the rest go to heaven. Cowardice in spiritual terms (not in child psychology) refers to rejecting Christ out of a worldly fear that they might be wrong to put faith in HIM since there is no proof offered that He IS our saviour or some other fear.

[Claire Evans]

So, here's the thing. If the Bible is the perfect word of God, and leaves no room for guessing, why does God not save babies? Or people who have never even heard of the name Jesus? Or even been out of the jungle for that matter? And what about the mentally ill, who cannot learn your religion? Or how about babies that die before they can even speak? Jesus clearly says that unbelievers, regardless of why they don't believe, will be enjoying their afterlife in hell.

Can God save babies on this earth is the first question to be asked. What in the Bible alludes to the condemnation of anyone who has never heard of the gospel? What about those before Jesus?

Romans 10:9-10
ok, well what if you are born mute? Or were never instructed in what to believe by no fault of your own besides the country you were born in?

Paul did not specifically say this applies to those who have never heard of Jesus. He clearly is referring to those who do and know.

Revelation 21:8
Cowardly? Really? If you're like, an abused child and so are a bit timid, you're going to hell?

I don't believe this refers to the example you have set above. The very evil are cowardly by nature. Satan is a coward. He cannot stand up to the light.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 2 by onewithhim]

God doesn't save babies at this point in time (though I'm sure it breaks his heart), because humans long ago gave him the finger and turned their backs on him because they wanted to call their own shots.

That makes perfect sense, doesn't it? Punishing/not saving babies because their ancestors did something bad? The absolute pinnacle of justice, compassion and morality.

There is no "afterlife." There is death and then there is the Resurrection, when everyone who has died will be brought back to life.

So it's a life that happens (however briefly)...AFTER their life? An after-life, then? Can I call it that?

[marco]

Humans said, "We want to decide for ourselves what is good or what is bad." They made themselves just like God, living with THEIR OWN rules and regulations. So God let humans go their own way.

This is invented, not Scriptural. Humans as a body did not say any such thing. All we have is the tale of Adam who decided to taste something rather than obey instructions. Extrapolating this into general human rebellion is absurd.

There is a time limit on this crazy world's insanity, however. God has set a certain point in time to bring all suffering and evil to an end. It is just hard for us to be patient, because it seems like a long time to us.

Illogical. People spend their lives suffering and God decides to do nothing. When he eventually gets round to stopping evil, does that make up for his former negligence? As for insanity, most of it seems to come from those who devoutly believe in a deity. The world is full of good people, despite God's indifference.

People who have never heard about Jesus or Jehovah, the mentally ill, babies that die---they will all be given the chance to learn in the new system of things under Jesus Christ's rule of a thousand years. (Rev.20:4,6) Jehovah will not have anyone die who has not had a chance to make an informed decision about whether or not they want to submit to His standards (which are not burdensome; I John 5:3). He wants everyone to live.

He allowed the "uninformed decisions" in permitting babies, for example, to be born deformed and die . Righting this wrong is creating a completely new personality, as is the case with people who spend their lives as imbeciles or lunatics. Do they get a brain transplant? This is what comes of trying to make sense of the senseless.

Fire is a metaphor for non-existence.

It might be, but why confuse the issue? There are dozens of other interpretations of what the babble in Revelation might be about. You must stand in a queue to have your take on things heard. The sensible thing would have been to state things clearly if there was to be "revelation" - but that's too easy


!

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by tryme]

Hello tryme, good questions!

God never punishes the innocent.

God is righteous and never punishes the innocent. The person that enjoys causing pain for innocent people is Satan the Devil. But this raises the question "Why does God ALLOW the suffering of the innocent?" and "What is He going to do about it?".

God plans to put an end to all human suffering!

God is just and has put in place all that is needed to see that suffering very soon comes to an end. People that, through no fault of their own, have suffered illness, injustice or pain in this present system of things will be given the opportunity to live forever right here on this our planet earth, in perfect health in beautiful houses they can design and build themselves with their families. God even promises the memories of former sufferings will be "wiped away" meaning that even if they remember the events, those memories will no longer cause them any emotional or psychological pain.

REVELATION 21:3-5
God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.� And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.� Also he says: “Write, for these words are faithful* and true.�

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So to answer your question: God is just and will see that justice is done for the innocent. He has put in place a Government that will ensure that no more babies suffer and those that have will be restored to life, health in the arms of loving families to grow to adulthood in peace and security. People who have never even heard of the name Jesus will be given the opportunity under this new government to learn about him and his role in salvation and mental illness will be a thing of the past as all disease and illness will be eliminated.

Further reading*: Why does God allow suffering?
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... suffering/


* NOTE: If you don't like to read, just click on the arrow and listen to the article without download.




Please don't hesistate if you have any further questions,

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 7 by JehovahsWitness]

God even promises the memories of former sufferings will be "wiped away" meaning that even if they remember the events, those memories will no longer cause them any emotional or psychological pain.

Can you resolve this contradiction? Either the memories are wiped away and they don't have them...or the memories are not wiped away and they do have them.

In either event, the idea of my MIND being manipulated...doesn't settle well with me. There are many sad events in my life that, while sad, I would prefer to remember because they built character, they helped me understand, broadened my horizons.

Why is it you champion the manipulation of memory?

[marco]

God plans to put an end to all human suffering!

It is hilarious that some individuals have acquired a copy of "God's plans." It is equally hilarious that God imposes himself on real time and lets his "plans" wait out the years.

Translated into an approximation of sense, we have a father watching his son suffer and deciding to act in perhaps five years time. There is no reason whatsoever for the suffering to be tolerated, when it could be stopped at once, but the father, like God, gives the bad guys respect for now. In reality, the father is acting very badly but God, his plans carefully made and laid aside, is acting well.

God even promises the memories of former sufferings will be "wiped away" meaning that even if they remember the events, those memories will no longer cause them any emotional or psychological pain.

How psychologically helpful of a negligent dad! The entire concept is hilarious but there is some sadness, too, that people actually believe in this stuff. We have such a short life-span and ignoring its passage in the expectation of a re-run in a thousand years time, to me, is awfully sad. Rather like the man who buried his talent.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 7 by JehovahsWitness]

God never punishes the innocent.

God is righteous and never punishes the innocent.

clears throat
From the Gospel of John, Chapter 9, New World Translation
As he was passing along, he saw a man who had been blind from birth. 2 And his disciples asked him: “Rabbi,+ who sinned, this man or his parents, so that he was born blind?� 3 Jesus answered: “Neither this man sinned nor his parents, but it was so that the works of God might be made manifest in his case.