What gives Paul the right..

[Elijah John]

Romans 10.9

If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

For debate,

-What gives Paul the right to add conditions for salvation, "namely believing in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead"?

-Where did Jesus himself actually teach this as a condition for salvation?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 7 by Elijah John]

The "whole message of Christianity" that Jesus taught was the love of God and neighbor, which he called the "Law and the Prophets"

Oh?

I think not.

He did not say that that love was "the whole message of Christianity", but that

On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets. [Matthew 22:40]

He also said,

The law and the prophets were until John; since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and whosoever will presses into it. [Luke 16:16]

Christianity is not the Law and the Prophets, it is the Kingdom of God, about which Jesus constantly spoke.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 9 by Elijah John]

Do you agree that Paul removed more conditions than he 'added'?

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 9 by Elijah John]

Do you agree that Paul removed more conditions than he 'added'?

Yes, but it doesn't really help. He removed more conditions from the ritual law but he added conditions to what Jesus taught, who had already loosed the yoke of the ritual law.

And Paul added a very divisive one at that. Based on something that he had (apparently) seen, namely the risen Christ . Others had no such advantage for "believing in one's heart that God raised him from the dead".

But no matter...add, subtract, the fact remains that Paul changed the requirements of salvation from what Jesus taught. Jesus never seems to have taught the requirement of believing that he will be resurrected as a condition for salvation.

Paul did.

So the question remains, who or what gave Paul the right? If Jesus had given Paul another set of keys to the Kingdom, I missed that part when I read the book of Acts.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 13 by Elijah John]

I am the way the truth and the life no one comes to the Father except through me.

Although I recall you have issues with John?

[Justin108]

Romans 10.9

If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

For debate,

-What gives Paul the right to add conditions for salvation, "namely believing in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead"?

-Where did Jesus himself actually teach this as a condition for salvation?

Mark 16:14 Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.


Jesus said pretty much the same thing as Paul according to Mark 16

[Elijah John]

Romans 10.9

If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

For debate,

-What gives Paul the right to add conditions for salvation, "namely believing in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead"?

-Where did Jesus himself actually teach this as a condition for salvation?

Mark 16:14 Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.


Jesus said pretty much the same thing as Paul according to Mark 16

Did Jesus preach the Gospel before he was crucified? If you answer "yes" then please tell me where he preached the necessity of believing he would be raised from the dead as a condition for salvation.

The resurrection may or may not be a fact of Jesus' existence and experience, but it was Paul who added the necessity of believing that fact as a condition for salvation.

Again, easy for him, because he encountered the risen Christ. Most of us have not had that advantage.

Even Christ himself never spelled that requirement during his ministry as a condition for salvation.

[Justin108]

Romans 10.9

If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

For debate,

-What gives Paul the right to add conditions for salvation, "namely believing in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead"?

-Where did Jesus himself actually teach this as a condition for salvation?

Mark 16:14 Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.


Jesus said pretty much the same thing as Paul according to Mark 16

Did Jesus preach the Gospel before he was crucified? If you answer "yes" then please tell me where he preached the necessity of believing he would be raised from the dead as a condition for salvation.

The resurrection may or may not be a fact of Jesus' existence and experience, but it was Paul who added the necessity of believing that fact as a condition for salvation.

Again, easy for him, because he encountered the risen Christ. Most of us have not had that advantage.

Even Christ himself never spelled that requirement during his ministry as a condition for salvation.

At the end there when it says "but he who does not believe will be condemned" makes it pretty clear that belief is a condition for salvation

[Elijah John]

Romans 10.9

If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

For debate,

-What gives Paul the right to add conditions for salvation, "namely believing in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead"?

-Where did Jesus himself actually teach this as a condition for salvation?

Mark 16:14 Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.


Jesus said pretty much the same thing as Paul according to Mark 16

Did Jesus preach the Gospel before he was crucified? If you answer "yes" then please tell me where he preached the necessity of believing he would be raised from the dead as a condition for salvation.

The resurrection may or may not be a fact of Jesus' existence and experience, but it was Paul who added the necessity of believing that fact as a condition for salvation.

Again, easy for him, because he encountered the risen Christ. Most of us have not had that advantage.

Even Christ himself never spelled that requirement during his ministry as a condition for salvation.

At the end there when it says "but he who does not believe will be condemned" makes it pretty clear that belief is a condition for salvation

Yes, but again belief in what exactly? In God? In Jesus? What about Jesus? In his teachings? Or in his resurrection?

Where does Jesus teach the requirement of believing in his eventual resurrection as necessary for salvation?

Please be specific.

My questions are somewhat rhetorical. Unless I missed it, Jesus never taught what Paul teaches in that passage from Romans. According to all the Gospels, Jesus never said that belief that he would rise from the dead was a requirement for salvation.

It was Paul who added that condition.

And Paul had an advantage here, as he encountered the risen Christ in a vision, which most of us have not had.

So how is it fair for Paul to add this as a condition for salvation?

[Justin108]

Yes, but again belief in what exactly? In God? In Jesus? What about Jesus? In his teachings? Or in his resurrection?

Where does Jesus teach the requirement of believing in his eventual resurrection as necessary for salvation?

Please be specific.

Mark 16:14 Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.


Is this specific enough? Jesus rebuked those who did not believe those who claimed to have seen him after he had risen. So yes, it does look like Jesus condemns those who do not believe in the resurrection.

[Elijah John]

Yes, but again belief in what exactly? In God? In Jesus? What about Jesus? In his teachings? Or in his resurrection?

Where does Jesus teach the requirement of believing in his eventual resurrection as necessary for salvation?

Please be specific.

Mark 16:14 Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.


Is this specific enough? Jesus rebuked those who did not believe those who claimed to have seen him after he had risen. So yes, it does look like Jesus condemns those who do not believe in the resurrection.

.
Yup, that is pretty specific. But it a roundabout teaching after the fact. The fact remains that Jesus never taught them beforehand that there salvation was dependent on belief in his impending resurrecton.

I do see that in the context of the passage that this is so. Verse 16 is directly related to verse 14.

But that still seems an unfair requirment for salvation, that yes, Jesus taught after his resurrection, but not during his ministry.

Once again, Paul had an unfair advantage but is not without justification for the "believing-in-your-heart-that-God-raised-him-from-the-dead" requirement. As you have demonstrated, Paul seems to have the Jesus precedent upon which to appeal.

Well done....so much for that angle.