Where did YHVH ever say..

[Elijah John]

Where in the "Old" Testament/Hebrew Bible did YHVH ever say anything resembling John 14.6?

That is, the only way TO Him is through His Son or through the Messiah?

Is John 14.6 in any way rooted in the Hebrew Bible?

If so, please demonstrate.

[ttruscott]

Where in the "Old" Testament/Hebrew Bible did YHVH ever say anything resembling John 14.6?

That is, the only way TO Him is through His Son or through the Messiah?

Is John 14.6 in any way rooted in the Hebrew Bible?

If so, please demonstrate.

Mayhap Christ was claiming to fulfill Isaiah 35:8 And a highway will be there; it will be called the Way of Holiness; it will be for those who walk on that Way. The unclean will not journey on it; wicked fools will not go about on it....

but even so, we have HIS words that tell us to 'stop here and make a right turn for new things are revealed': John 14:6 Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me.

If He was not the only way, then who cares what He was?
If HE did not rise, then who cares who he was?
If His death did not appease our sins then how are we better off than a pagan?
If Christianity is just another moral play for our conscience, who cares...?...I am the judge, the way and my life is mine! Invictus fails before John 14:6.

[Elijah John]

Where in the "Old" Testament/Hebrew Bible did YHVH ever say anything resembling John 14.6?

That is, the only way TO Him is through His Son or through the Messiah?

Is John 14.6 in any way rooted in the Hebrew Bible?

If so, please demonstrate.

Mayhap Christ was claiming to fulfill Isaiah 35:8 And a highway will be there; it will be called the Way of Holiness; it will be for those who walk on that Way. The unclean will not journey on it; wicked fools will not go about on it....

Perhaps, but it sound to me Isaiah was simply prophesying the Halacha, the way of YHVH and His Law. Perhaps a more accessible way to enter the on-ramp?

but even so, we have HIS words that tell us to 'stop here and make a right turn for new things are revealed': John 14:6 Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me.

So John's Jesus is changing the rules, it seems without any real root or reason from his Bible, the Hebrew Bible. Shouldn't such rule changes be viewed with skepticism, if not outright rejection? But that's John's Jesus who makes the claim, I doubt the historical Jesus ever did.

If He was not the only way, then who cares what He was?

I do, historical Jesus scholars do, Theologically liberal Christians do...He doesn't have to be the only way to be the best way....for us.

If HE did not rise, then who cares who he was?

He was an important prophet of YHVH, and taught many truths about the Father. And THAT is what matters, whether or not he rose, his teachings live on.

If His death did not appease our sins then how are we better off than a pagan

Ironic you should bring this up. Because appeasement is the pagan modus operandi. The Living God YHVH is far above all that, for He forgives for own sake and His name's sake.

If Christianity is just another moral play for our conscience, who cares...?...I am the judge, the way and my life is mine! Invictus fails before John 14:6.

Who's invoking Henley here? Not me. Let us stick to reasoning from the Scriptures, shall we?

Moral play for our conscience? Meaning calls to repentance? Seems to me, that is what Jesus was all about. That and teaching direct access (bypassing the Temple) to YHVH God. Remember the Lord's prayer, The Beattitudes, and the Parables? Very direct, democratic, and egalitarian. No Temple, no blood needed.

Asserting that either Christ is the only way or "who cares" is a false dichotomy. He certainly played an essential role, the most essential role for all of us who call ourselves Christians. Even Muslims honor him second only to Mohammad in the hieriarchy of God's prophets.

He bore witness to the truth of direct access to God, angering the Temple authorities in the process and he paid for it with his life.

[ttruscott]

So John's Jesus is changing the rules,

The fact that at the end of the OT there were unfulfilled prophecies proves to us that HIS revelation is progressive.

Deny John makes you the final arbiter of all - a position I had to drop when my guilt for my sins slammed me into the dirt.

[Elijah John]

So John's Jesus is changing the rules,

The fact that at the end of the OT there were unfulfilled prophecies proves to us that HIS revelation is progressive.

Deny John makes you the final arbiter of all - a position I had to drop when my guilt for my sins slammed me into the dirt.

It's not just me, many historical Jesus scholars are skeptical of the GoJ. His narrative timeline conflicts with the Synoptics, and he has Jesus saying some things that are certainly not said in the Synoptics.

Which Gospel do you think is more true to the events as they happened., the earliest Gospel of Mark, or the latest Gospel of John?

Which Gospel do you think is more likely to have accrued a bit of myth making, or at least theological interpretation. The earliest Gospel of Mark, or the latest, Gospel of John?

When you indicated you had to drop a position out of guilt, which position did you formerly take?

Skeptical of John at one time as well?

Let me ask you this. If Jesus is the only way to the Father, how do you account for all those "Old" Testament Bible heroes who waked with God?

If direct faith and obedience to YHVH was good enough for the Bible heroes of old, why not for us in the here and now?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 3 by Elijah John]

Let us stick to reasoning from the Scriptures, shall we?

Yes, and in that process let us be done with picking and choosing what and who we recognise as being authoritative.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 3 by Elijah John]

Let us stick to reasoning from the Scriptures, shall we?

Yes, and in that process let us be done with picking and choosing what and who we recognise as being authoritative.

Authoritative does not mean inerrant, even on this forum. The GoJ has holes and conflicts with the Synoptics and the OT Hebrew Bible. Being skeptical of the GoJ is fair game.

Or did you mean the way Trinitarian apologists have cherry picked passages from the Hebrew Bible to make their shaky case that "Jesus is God" or that he died to "pay for" our sins?

[ttruscott]

Which Gospel do you think is more true to the events as they happened., the earliest Gospel of Mark, or the latest Gospel of John?

Both.

When you indicated you had to drop a position out of guilt, which position did you formerly take?

Skeptical of John at one time as well?

Just any scepticism that suggested I knew better about what GOD wrote than anyone else...

Let me ask you this. If Jesus is the only way to the Father, how do you account for all those "Old" Testament Bible heroes who waked with God?

Often it may have been Him they were walking with, especially as He was the Captain of the Lord's Army.

If direct faith and obedience to YHVH was good enough for the Bible heroes of old, why not for us in the here and now?

Once a further revealed extension of the the truth is given, are we not beholden to follow it?

You know, I could have been a Christian like you but the Spirit would not let me...I had no right to declare any scripture as Satanic (it is one or the other) but should only go where I was led.

[Elijah John]

Which Gospel do you think is more true to the events as they happened., the earliest Gospel of Mark, or the latest Gospel of John?

Both.

Can't be "both" as there are vast discrepencies and contradictions between the GoJ and the Synoptics. Otherwise, why is "John" not considered a "Synoptic", which means "same sight"?

When you indicated you had to drop a position out of guilt, which position did you formerly take?

Skeptical of John at one time as well?

Just any scepticism that suggested I knew better about what GOD wrote than anyone else...

Speaking of "knowing better" you mean like with your "PCE" theoology?

Let me ask you this. If Jesus is the only way to the Father, how do you account for all those "Old" Testament Bible heroes who waked with God?

Often it may have been Him they were walking with, especially as He was the Captain of the Lord's Army.

That's the problem with "Jesus the only way" theology...to deny the record of others finding YHVH before Jesus even appeared on the pages of the Bible, one has to make far-fetched interpolations, engage in revisionism and read things into the OT/Hebrew Bible that are simply not there.

If direct faith and obedience to YHVH was good enough for the Bible heroes of old, why not for us in the here and now?

Once a further revealed extension of the the truth is given, are we not beholden to follow it?

Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Proverbs 30.6

Seems to apply especially to John 14.6 which has no root in the Hebrew Bible. Where, for instance, does the OT every teach that the "Messiah is the only way to God". Or to forgiveness and relationship with Him?

You know, I could have been a Christian like you but the Spirit would not let me...I had no right to declare any scripture as Satanic (it is one or the other) but should only go where I was led.

You're bringing Satan into this discussion, not me.

"Would not let you"? Unfortunate.

I consider the theology you ended up with to be misguided, but would not call you or your PCE theology "Satanic".

Reprehensible in places, but not Satanic.

[JP Cusick]

Where in the "Old" Testament/Hebrew Bible did YHVH ever say anything resembling John 14.6?

That is, the only way TO Him is through His Son or through the Messiah?

Is John 14.6 in any way rooted in the Hebrew Bible?

If so, please demonstrate.

John 14:6
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." KJV

The confusion in this comes from orthodox Christianity which harped onto the last 3 words and virtually ignores the point of what Jesus said there.

The message was that:
1) Any person who follows the way will thereby be going to the Father.
2) Any person who follows the truth will thereby be going to the Father.
3) Any person who follows the life will thereby be going to the Father.

The message is saying that the Messiah is in each of those actions (or virtues), and it was not talking about going through Jesus the person as Christianity claims.

An example would be the "4 Noble Truths" from the Buddha, because the Buddha connected with the "truth" and thereby it is a connection to the Father God. LINK.

Another example is the "way" as seen in the Tao Te Ching = the Way and Integrity book, LINK.

The word "life" is a bit more complicated as it means any person who treads on the correct aspects of living will thereby connect with the Father by default.

The entire text of John 14:6 has nothing to do with Jesus as a person, while it had everything to do with the spiritual connect with the Father God.

And I must point out that Yahweh is a word that means "Male Creator" which is properly translated as "Father" just as Jesus kept referring to our Father who art in Heaven.