Jehovah's Witnesses believe God's Kingdom for which many Christians have prayed throughout the ages to be a (heavenly) government (three words).
What, in three or four words if possible, do you believe it to be?
(Many Christians I have met have said its "A feeling" (in one's heart).
JWs consider God's Kingdom to be a Government
Moderator: Moderators
- JehovahsWitness
- Savant
- Posts: 21109
- Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
- Has thanked: 792 times
- Been thanked: 1122 times
- Contact:
JWs consider God's Kingdom to be a Government
Post #1INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
- Divine Insight
- Savant
- Posts: 18070
- Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:59 pm
- Location: Here & Now
- Been thanked: 19 times
Post #2
Based on what I see in the Biblical doctrines the only three words that come to my mind are:
Absolute Totalitarian Dictatorship
There simply doesn't appear to be any room at all for any sort of free democracy or anything along those lines.
In fact, based on what I see in the Biblical doctrines the laws of God would be pretty harsh. God's Government would not only tell you what you are not permitted to do, but it would also dictate precisely what you must do on a daily basis.
What you are permitted to eat.
When you are permitted to eat.
Who you are permitted to have sex with.
How you are permitted to have sex.
When you are permitted to have sex.
How you must worship God.
When you must worship God.
What you must wear.
What you must not wear.
The list goes on and on even to the point of condemning you for what you might THINK and not even act on, (according to Jesus himself).
I don't see how the Government of the God of the Bible could be anything less than an Absolute Totalitarian Dictatorship condemning you for even thought crimes. Do you?
If you think it could be anything other than an Absolute Totalitarian Dictatorship, please explain why you would think this and provide scriptural support for you theological views.
Thank you.
P. S. I think it would be quite interesting to see someone make a case based on Biblical scriptures that humans aren't required to do precisely as the Biblical God decrees. That would certainly be material for an interesting theological debate.
Absolute Totalitarian Dictatorship
There simply doesn't appear to be any room at all for any sort of free democracy or anything along those lines.
In fact, based on what I see in the Biblical doctrines the laws of God would be pretty harsh. God's Government would not only tell you what you are not permitted to do, but it would also dictate precisely what you must do on a daily basis.
What you are permitted to eat.
When you are permitted to eat.
Who you are permitted to have sex with.
How you are permitted to have sex.
When you are permitted to have sex.
How you must worship God.
When you must worship God.
What you must wear.
What you must not wear.
The list goes on and on even to the point of condemning you for what you might THINK and not even act on, (according to Jesus himself).
I don't see how the Government of the God of the Bible could be anything less than an Absolute Totalitarian Dictatorship condemning you for even thought crimes. Do you?
If you think it could be anything other than an Absolute Totalitarian Dictatorship, please explain why you would think this and provide scriptural support for you theological views.
Thank you.
P. S. I think it would be quite interesting to see someone make a case based on Biblical scriptures that humans aren't required to do precisely as the Biblical God decrees. That would certainly be material for an interesting theological debate.
[center]
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]
-
- Prodigy
- Posts: 4069
- Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:07 pm
- Has thanked: 105 times
- Been thanked: 63 times
Re: JWs consider God's Kingdom to be a Government
Post #3The kingdom is both present and future.JehovahsWitness wrote: Jehovah's Witnesses believe God's Kingdom for which many Christians have prayed throughout the ages to be a (heavenly) government (three words).
What, in three or four words if possible, do you believe it to be?
(Many Christians I have met have said its "A feeling" (in one's heart).
It is where God and His family are, where God reigns with them and how they live together.
- JehovahsWitness
- Savant
- Posts: 21109
- Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
- Has thanked: 792 times
- Been thanked: 1122 times
- Contact:
Post #4
[Replying to post 2 by Divine Insight]
Thank you for your post, I can't seem to see an answer to the question though... I'll repost the question, in case you missed it:
Thank you for your post, I can't seem to see an answer to the question though... I'll repost the question, in case you missed it:
JehovahsWitness wrote: What, in three or four words if possible, do you believe it to be?.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
- Divine Insight
- Savant
- Posts: 18070
- Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:59 pm
- Location: Here & Now
- Been thanked: 19 times
Post #5
Didn't I already answer that question?JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 2 by Divine Insight]
Thank you for your post, I can't seem to see an answer to the question though... I'll repost the question, in case you missed it:
JehovahsWitness wrote: What, in three or four words if possible, do you believe it to be?.
I don't need to believe that the Bible is true in order to comment on what I "believe" it is saying.
As far as I can see the Bible doesn't allow for anything other than God being the absolute ruler as in a totalitarian dictator.
So to make this into a three-word description as you had requested I are simple add "Absolute" to the front of that. Because after all, this God doesn't appear to me to allow for anything other than his absolute moral authority. And as far as I can see many Christian, and even other Abrahamic theists argue that this God is indeed the ultimate authority when it comes to what is deemed to be moral behavior.
You have suggested that "many Christians" suggest that "God's Government" is "a feeling" in one's heart.
But surely they aren't suggesting that "God's Government" is to simply do whatever a person is "feeling" at the moment in their heart?
Surely what they mean is that they can tell whether or not they are in line with God's Absolute Totalitarian Dictatorship by what they are feeling in their heart.
In other words, if they think they are about to do something that might go against God's Absolute Totalitarian Dictatorship they feel "bad", or "guilty" in their heart and thus strive to refrain from doing whatever it was they were thinking about doing.
On the other hand, if they feel in their heart that what they are doing is "good" then they probably figure that it's in harmony with God's Absolute Totalitarian Dictatorship even if it might actually conflict with the Biblical Scriptures, such as Women speaking out in Church, or speaking publicly on religious matters, etc.
I've met many women preachers who feel that what they are doing is actually "God's Will" in spite of the obvious scriptural taboos against this.
Also, if what I feel good about in my heart is "God's Law", then rejecting the entire Abrahamic picture of God, including the Christian idea that Jesus was the Son of God, must be ok in terms of "God's Law". Otherwise I would need to necessarily feel "bad" or "guilty" about rejecting the Bible as nothing more than poorly-thought-out mythology.
But I don't feel the least bit bad about having come to that conclusion.
[center]
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]
- JehovahsWitness
- Savant
- Posts: 21109
- Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
- Has thanked: 792 times
- Been thanked: 1122 times
- Contact:
Post #6
[Replying to post 5 by Divine Insight]
So you too, like Jehovah's Witnesses believe that God's kingdom is refering to a government? Interesting, that's rare, most people think its speaking about "a feeling in one's heart".
Thanks for your input, have an excellent weekend,
JW
So you too, like Jehovah's Witnesses believe that God's kingdom is refering to a government? Interesting, that's rare, most people think its speaking about "a feeling in one's heart".
Thanks for your input, have an excellent weekend,
JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
- JehovahsWitness
- Savant
- Posts: 21109
- Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
- Has thanked: 792 times
- Been thanked: 1122 times
- Contact:
Re: JWs consider God's Kingdom to be a Government
Post #7Checkpoint wrote:The kingdom is both present and future.JehovahsWitness wrote: Jehovah's Witnesses believe God's Kingdom for which many Christians have prayed throughout the ages to be a (heavenly) government (three words).
What, in three or four words if possible, do you believe it to be?
(Many Christians I have met have said its "A feeling" (in one's heart).
It is where God and His family are, where God reigns with them and how they live together.
Thank you, you repeatedly say God's kingdom is "where" .... so would it be fair to say for you God's kingdom is a place/location?
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
- McCulloch
- Site Supporter
- Posts: 24063
- Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 9:10 pm
- Location: Toronto, ON, CA
- Been thanked: 3 times
Post #8
At Hand
Matthew 3:2 “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.�
Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach and say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.�
Matthew 10:7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’
And for context to illustrate what the expression at hand means:
Matthew 26:45 Then He came to the disciples and said to them, “Are you still sleeping and resting? Behold, the hour is at hand and the Son of Man is being betrayed into the hands of sinners.
Matthew 26:46 Get up, let us be going; behold, the one who betrays Me is at hand!�
Matthew 3:2 “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.�
Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach and say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.�
Matthew 10:7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’
And for context to illustrate what the expression at hand means:
Matthew 26:45 Then He came to the disciples and said to them, “Are you still sleeping and resting? Behold, the hour is at hand and the Son of Man is being betrayed into the hands of sinners.
Matthew 26:46 Get up, let us be going; behold, the one who betrays Me is at hand!�
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
Re: JWs consider God's Kingdom to be a Government
Post #9[Replying to post 1 by JehovahsWitness]
I call it an ill defined, unjustified belief.
Sorry for the extra words.
JehovahsWitness wrote:
What, in three or four words if possible, do you believe it to be?
I call it an ill defined, unjustified belief.
Sorry for the extra words.
- JehovahsWitness
- Savant
- Posts: 21109
- Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
- Has thanked: 792 times
- Been thanked: 1122 times
- Contact:
Post #10
[Replying to post 8 by McCulloch]
So you think the kingdom is a "hand" ie a part of someone's body?
So you think the kingdom is a "hand" ie a part of someone's body?
JehovahsWitness wrote: What, in three or four words if possible, do you believe it to be?
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8