How should we treat secular family members?

[The Transcended Omniverse]

If you have a son, daughter, or parent that you deeply love and he/she does not believe in your religion and such a religion promotes the doctrine of condemnation and hell for those who do not believe and do not serve your religious god or figure, then you would have to accept this as a tragic burden and fact of your daily life. It just shows how horrible and ludicrous such religious doctrines are because you would have to accept that your most loved parent or spouse is going to be punished, condemned, and will go to hell.

I personally find the love that we have for our parents and siblings to be a secular contradiction to these sorts of dogmatic doctrines because such doctrines teach that such disobedient nonbelievers are wicked, sinners, and to be acknowledged as deserving of punishment, condemnation, and eternal torment. This means that the loving treatment we would have for such family members should not apply. We should just acknowledge them as disgusting sinners worthy of condemnation and not even treat them with dignity and respect.

My question is, how can you treat your secular family members with such love and compassion as though they were saved believers like one of you? Especially if these family members never change their secular worldview which is often the case. Let's pretend for a moment that you knew these secular family members were to never change their worldview and, thus, never be saved from condemnation, then doesn't this reveal to you how horrible, false, and cruel your religious worldview is providing that said religious view is one that promotes the doctrine of hell and condemnation towards kind and loving secular human beings?

In such a situation where a secular family member would never change his/her worldview, surely god does not think the same way as these religious believers who still choose to love their secular family members. If god is going to condemn these secular people on judgment day to eternal hell, then surely he does not have a kind and loving attitude towards these people.

Like I said, this whole idea of having a loving and compassionate attitude towards secular family members completely goes against this harsh and cruel nature of god. It would make absolutely no sense at all for god to display a loving and kind attitude towards these secular people while, at the same time, condemning them to eternal hell. If the idea of religion is to be a model after the god we worship, then it would only make sense for the worshipers to also display the cruel and harsh attitude that god has towards these unchanging secular humanists.

[Wootah]

I wish more people in my family thought I was going to hell unless I changed my beliefs.

They would be kinder and more loving to me and I'm sure I'd be getting more favored treatment.

[Zzyzx]

.
The best way to treat people is as people -- not as religious symbols.

Why should anyone's religious beliefs or preferences be a matter of concern or discussion? Isn't religion a personal decision matter?


If you (generic term) think others need to be 'saved', that is YOUR problem, your opinion, your belief -- that need not be inflicted onto others.

Don't allow religion to be any more divisive and exclusionary than it already is. Many families, marriages, friendships, relationships ARE torn apart (and wars are fought) over the issue of which of the 'gods' to worship and how to worship.

How silly -- since none of the 'gods' has been shown to be anything more than imaginary constructs of human imagination.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 3 by Zzyzx]

Because when you scratch the surface of a secularist you find all manner of imaginary constructs of human imagination.

And so we are back to square one, except we are acting on less information because many of those beliefs are untested and unconsidered.

[Zzyzx]

.

Because when you scratch the surface of a secularist you find all manner of imaginary constructs of human imagination.

And so we are back to square one, except we are acting on less information because many of those beliefs are untested and unconsidered.

What the heck does that have to do with how to treat secular family members? Is it a suggestion to 'scratch' them and provoke discord?

Is it intended to disagree with my statements "The best way to treat people is as people -- not as religious symbols.

Why should anyone's religious beliefs or preferences be a matter of concern or discussion? Isn't religion a personal decision matter?"

And so we are back to square one, except we are acting on less information because many of those beliefs are untested and unconsidered.

What beliefs are in need of discussion or consideration in dealing with family members? Why is that a matter of concern (or 'scratching')?

'Mind your own business' works well in most cases.

[Wootah]

How well is mind your own business working out for families quite honestly. I think the evidence suggests more parents should get involved and more friends should get involved.

[Zzyzx]

.

How well is mind your own business working out for families quite honestly.

Things seem to be working in positive directions for teens on average:

Have teens gotten a bad rap in recent years? They are typically characterized as self-involved, reckless, and only interested in “sharing� on their phones, but the youth of today, in reality, are actually behaving more virtuously than they have in a long time.

Statistics tell an optimistic story. From smoking and drug use to unwanted pregnancies and abortions, the trends today show most teenagers making good choices. They are even volunteering in their communities more than ever before.

Smoking has become uncool. According to national CDC statistics, cigarette smoking among high school students is at the lowest level in 22 years. The rate was cut almost in half, leaving just 15.7 percent of teens smoking in 2013.

Drunk driving is far less common. The Youth Risk Behavior Survey has revealed that at half as many high school students say they got behind the wheel drunk in 2011 compared to 1991.

Drug abuse is down. Recreational use of prescription pain relievers continue a three year decline, part of an overall two-decade trend. The number of high school kids using was 33% lower than a decade ago, according to a recently released national survey, Monitoring the Future. The survey noted that marijuana use remained stable, even with the increase of states allowing recreational use.

Unwanted Pregnancy and Abortion has plummeted. Teen pregnancy has declined almost continuously for more than two decades, plummeting from 61 to 26 births per thousand girls, according to federal health statistics. Also, the rate of abortions among women under 20 has fallen since it peaked in the early 1990s, according to 2014 research by the nonprofit Guttmacher Institute.

Kids are hanging in there until graduation. Efforts to keep teens in school are paying off. The National Center for Educational Statistics reported the high school dropout rate has decreased from 12 percent in 1990 to 7 percent in 2012.

Today’s teens regularly volunteer more. A higher number of teens in twelfth-grade are volunteering at least once per month. The proportion rose from 24 percent in 1991 to 37 percent in 2012, according to Child Trends. The nonprofit research center that tracks youth trends says it is an encouraging trend, “Teens who volunteer are more likely to have positive academic, psychological, and occupational well-being.�
http://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/teenstod ... uallygood/

Perhaps these positive changes correlate to young people leaving religion in droves.

As the country's youth continue to leave the Christian Church at a rapid rate, researchers attempt to pin down the reason for the mass exodus, pointing primarily to the relationship between organized religion and conservative politics, the postmodernist movement, and the psychosocial relationship between the youth and the elderly.

A 2007 survey conducted by LifeWay Research found that 70 percent of 23- to 30-year-olds admitted to breaking regular church attendance for at least a year from ages 18 to 22.

Fifty-two percent of these drop-outs attributed their departure to "religious, ethical, or political beliefs."

Research argues that politicians who promote conservative religious values could be sabotaging the future of organized religion by alienating America’s youth.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/why-y ... PuEcC3I.99

Bold added:

Did you have something else in mind -- perhaps some conservative religious values to help drive away young people? If so, carry on and help the exodus.

I think the evidence suggests

To what EVIDENCE does this refer?

more parents should get involved and more friends should get involved.

WHY, exactly, should parents and friends should get involved in theistic decisions?

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 7 by Zzyzx]

So you quote evidence of things changing because we are getting more involved. That's evidence that care and concern is good.

[Zzyzx]

.

So you quote evidence of things changing because we are getting more involved. That's evidence that care and concern is good.

Bold added.

Where is the evidence of because we are getting more involved?

Who is the 'we' mentioned?

Has religion been the driving force for decline in youth drug abuse, drunk driving, smoking, unwanted pregnancy, abortion, high school dropout rate?

If that is the claim, how can it be that religion influenced those trends when young people are LESS involved in religions now (with decreased rates) and when they were MORE involved with religion the rates were HIGHER?

Analyzing what has been presented (not just speculated about), it appears as though there is a correlation between LEAVING religion and beneficial changes.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

If you have a son, daughter, or parent that you deeply love and he/she does not believe in your religion and such a religion promotes the doctrine of condemnation and hell for those who do not believe and do not serve your religious god or figure, then you would have to accept this as a tragic burden and fact of your daily life. It just shows how horrible and ludicrous such religious doctrines are because you would have to accept that your most loved parent or spouse is going to be punished, condemned, and will go to hell.

I personally find the love that we have for our parents and siblings to be a secular contradiction to these sorts of dogmatic doctrines because such doctrines teach that such disobedient nonbelievers are wicked, sinners, and to be acknowledged as deserving of punishment, condemnation, and eternal torment. This means that the loving treatment we would have for such family members should not apply. We should just acknowledge them as disgusting sinners worthy of condemnation and not even treat them with dignity and respect.

My question is, how can you treat your secular family members with such love and compassion as though they were saved believers like one of you? Especially if these family members never change their secular worldview which is often the case. Let's pretend for a moment that you knew these secular family members were to never change their worldview and, thus, never be saved from condemnation, then doesn't this reveal to you how horrible, false, and cruel your religious worldview is providing that said religious view is one that promotes the doctrine of hell and condemnation towards kind and loving secular human beings?

In such a situation where a secular family member would never change his/her worldview, surely god does not think the same way as these religious believers who still choose to love their secular family members. If god is going to condemn these secular people on judgment day to eternal hell, then surely he does not have a kind and loving attitude towards these people.

Like I said, this whole idea of having a loving and compassionate attitude towards secular family members completely goes against this harsh and cruel nature of god. It would make absolutely no sense at all for god to display a loving and kind attitude towards these secular people while, at the same time, condemning them to eternal hell. If the idea of religion is to be a model after the god we worship, then it would only make sense for the worshipers to also display the cruel and harsh attitude that god has towards these unchanging secular humanists.

My attitude towards my religious family members has always been, if you don't want to hear what I have to say, then don't bring the subject up. And I will do the same.