How should we treat secular family members?

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The Transcended Omniverse
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How should we treat secular family members?

Post #1

Post by The Transcended Omniverse »

If you have a son, daughter, or parent that you deeply love and he/she does not believe in your religion and such a religion promotes the doctrine of condemnation and hell for those who do not believe and do not serve your religious god or figure, then you would have to accept this as a tragic burden and fact of your daily life. It just shows how horrible and ludicrous such religious doctrines are because you would have to accept that your most loved parent or spouse is going to be punished, condemned, and will go to hell.

I personally find the love that we have for our parents and siblings to be a secular contradiction to these sorts of dogmatic doctrines because such doctrines teach that such disobedient nonbelievers are wicked, sinners, and to be acknowledged as deserving of punishment, condemnation, and eternal torment. This means that the loving treatment we would have for such family members should not apply. We should just acknowledge them as disgusting sinners worthy of condemnation and not even treat them with dignity and respect.

My question is, how can you treat your secular family members with such love and compassion as though they were saved believers like one of you? Especially if these family members never change their secular worldview which is often the case. Let's pretend for a moment that you knew these secular family members were to never change their worldview and, thus, never be saved from condemnation, then doesn't this reveal to you how horrible, false, and cruel your religious worldview is providing that said religious view is one that promotes the doctrine of hell and condemnation towards kind and loving secular human beings?

In such a situation where a secular family member would never change his/her worldview, surely god does not think the same way as these religious believers who still choose to love their secular family members. If god is going to condemn these secular people on judgment day to eternal hell, then surely he does not have a kind and loving attitude towards these people.

Like I said, this whole idea of having a loving and compassionate attitude towards secular family members completely goes against this harsh and cruel nature of god. It would make absolutely no sense at all for god to display a loving and kind attitude towards these secular people while, at the same time, condemning them to eternal hell. If the idea of religion is to be a model after the god we worship, then it would only make sense for the worshipers to also display the cruel and harsh attitude that god has towards these unchanging secular humanists.
Last edited by The Transcended Omniverse on Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How should we treat secular family members?

Post #11

Post by Zzyzx »

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Tired of the Nonsense wrote: My attitude towards my religious family members has always been, if you don't want to hear what I have to say, then don't bring the subject up. And I will do the same.
I take that approach with people in general.

Many religionists seem to feel compelled to tell everyone about their beliefs -- as though they can't contain themselves. They often resemble new MLM (multi-level marketing) enthusiasts -- pushing the product at every opportunity, even when people obviously do not want to hear the sales pitch.

In some cases it becomes necessary to be rather forceful / insistent / blunt before they shut up about their god beliefs and opinions.
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Re: How should we treat secular family members?

Post #12

Post by Tired of the Nonsense »

Zzyzx wrote: .
Tired of the Nonsense wrote: My attitude towards my religious family members has always been, if you don't want to hear what I have to say, then don't bring the subject up. And I will do the same.
I take that approach with people in general.

Many religionists seem to feel compelled to tell everyone about their beliefs -- as though they can't contain themselves. They often resemble new MLM (multi-level marketing) enthusiasts -- pushing the product at every opportunity, even when people obviously do not want to hear the sales pitch.

In some cases it becomes necessary to be rather forceful / insistent / blunt before they shut up about their god beliefs and opinions.
I am always delighted when the JWs and Mormon come to my door and are standing on my porch asking to talk to me about religion. And I am ready willing and able to oblige for as long as they like. They never leave happy, but at least I gave them what they were seeking. Otherwise, I don't go around with an atheist sign on. There is no atheist crucifix. I don't even have one of those Darwin stickers on my car. I never impose my thoughts about religion on others... unless they start it.
Image "The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -- Albert Einstein -- Written in 1954 to Jewish philosopher Erik Gutkind.

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Post #13

Post by zjsd26 »

Everyone is not going to agree with the same thing you agree with. I think we shouldn't make this a huge issue, because following God is all about making a choice. All of us are given freewill, no matter if you care about their eternity or not. You got to understand, they are making that choice. I believe we should love people regardless, especially if it's your family member. Because they are your flesh and blood, and someone that you live with. Even though you may not agree with them on certain things, you still have to be able to look past that. If I were to have children, I would talk about the Bible with them, but I would still give them that freedom, such as God gave us freedom.

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Post #14

Post by The Transcended Omniverse »

Actually, let me say this:

There are many religious families with secular family members. I will just talk about Christianity here. The God in the bible literally hates secular humanists with a secular worldview that never changes. He thinks they are disgusting sinners worthy of condemnation in hell and he thinks they are reprehensible. The idea of Christianity is to be a model after Jesus/God as close as we possibly can since we are supposed to be like God/Jesus as close as we can.

This being the case, it would logically follow that you are supposed to hate your secular family members who live with an unchanging secular worldview since they are disgusting sinners who won't change and are deserving of hell. But I see many Christians still showing them love and compassion. I find this contradictory. It contradicts God's horrible moral nature. This clearly shows that secular humanism is vastly superior to the moral standard of the Christian God because the love that Christians display towards their unchanging secular family members is a secular love and moral righteousness.

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Post #15

Post by Tired of the Nonsense »

The Transcended Omniverse wrote: Actually, let me say this:

There are many religious families with secular family members. I will just talk about Christianity here. The God in the bible literally hates secular humanists with a secular worldview that never changes. He thinks they are disgusting sinners worthy of condemnation in hell and he thinks they are reprehensible. The idea of Christianity is to be a model after Jesus/God as close as we possibly can since we are supposed to be like God/Jesus as close as we can.

This being the case, it would logically follow that you are supposed to hate your secular family members who live with an unchanging secular worldview since they are disgusting sinners who won't change and are deserving of hell. But I see many Christians still showing them love and compassion. I find this contradictory. It contradicts God's horrible moral nature. This clearly shows that secular humanism is vastly superior to the moral standard of the Christian God because the love that Christians display towards their unchanging secular family members is a secular love and moral righteousness.
The morality displayed in the OT is often dark and hideous. The morality displayed in the NT is largely borrowed from other cultures. The dark concepts of right and wrong that were maintained by ancient ignorant people thousands of years ago should have passed into disuse long ago. The only individuals who should be interested in these ancient beliefs are cultural anthropologists and historians seeking to understand the life and times of our ancient ancestors. Those ancient people were ignorant because they didn't know any better. Modern people who continue to embrace ancient ignorance are choosing ignorance over knowledge because they seem to find ignorance comforting.
Image "The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -- Albert Einstein -- Written in 1954 to Jewish philosopher Erik Gutkind.

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Re: How should we treat secular family members?

Post #16

Post by Rufus21 »

The Transcended Omniverse wrote:My question is, how can you treat your secular family members with such love and compassion as though they were saved believers like one of you?
That's easy, just ignore that part of the person! Treat the person the way every good Christian treats the bible - praise the parts that you like and skip over the parts you disagree with. If you pretend hard enough that your family member's bad traits aren't there, everything will seem perfect and beautiful. You'll never have to accept that the person, like all people, is flawed and imperfect.

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Post #17

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to The Transcended Omniverse]

Yes but that is contradicted by the fact that normally we don't help what we hate. Christians are commanded to love their enemies.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Post #18

Post by Zzyzx »

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Wootah wrote: Yes but that is contradicted by the fact that normally we don't help what we hate. Christians are commanded to love their enemies.
Christians seem to have great ability to NOT do what they claim to be commanded TO do -- and still set themselves forth as virtuous and superior (or at least 'chosen' and 'saved'). Talk is cheap -- and few walk the talk.

If people really believed that following the teachings of Jesus would bring them eternal bliss (or whatever), it would seem as though they would actually do so without exceptions or excuses -- perhaps ascetically.

Don't say it can't be done -- some monks evidently live remarkably ascetic lives. If they can do it, so could others (if they really believed the promises).
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Post #19

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to Zzyzx]

No one walks the talk when it comes to following God. We all fail. Ergo need for Jesus.

It's not about lack of belief or will or spirit. It's just the flesh. The flesh is weak but the spirit is willing.

And it's a double standard you are suggesting. Should I quit trying to get healthy just because I keep failing to do so? Should we stop trying in life because we fail so often?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Post #20

Post by Zzyzx »

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Wootah wrote: No one walks the talk when it comes to following God. We all fail. Ergo need for Jesus.

It's not about lack of belief or will or spirit. It's just the flesh. The flesh is weak but the spirit is willing.
If ascetic monks walk the talk, why can't others?
Wootah wrote: And it's a double standard you are suggesting.
What, exactly, is the double?
Wootah wrote: Should I quit trying to get healthy just because I keep failing to do so?
Suits me either way.

HOWEVER, if you claim to be following a health plan and eat unhealthily, that is failing to walk the talk.
Wootah wrote: Should role stop trying in life because they fail often?
I do not understand 'role'.

However, if people claim to be doing certain things and 'fail often' to do them, that is NOT walking the talk. If a person says they quit smoking but still smokes 'sometimes' is that acceptable in Christian thinking?

Should we say that if they are Christians that is okay because they are not expected to actually do what they claim to be doing -- and they can expect to be 'forgiven' for failings and falsehoods?
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