Jesus = Dyonisius

[liamconnor]

I was recently "informed" that a good many characters in the Bible are merely versions of what are clearly myths. The argument is based on perceived parallels.

But what makes a good parallel?

For instance, I was informed that the story of Cain and Abel is just the story of Osiris and his brother Set.

Now, in a very, very condensed (one might say "selectively" condensed) abstract, yes, we have a parallel. Two brothers. one kills the other. But when I read both stories out all the way through, to me at least, we have far more that differentiates them than relates them.

So,

1) what are some solid criteria for drawing a parallel between, say, Jesus and Dyonisius (a.k.a Bacchus)?

2) In the above case, is it important to note when certain characteristics appear in the religious description; i.e., classical scholars are agree that any attribution to Dyonisius of a "resurrection" post-dates Christianity. Is that relevant to the argument that because Dyonisius is said to have died and been raised, therefore Jesus must just be a retelling of that myth?

[Tired of the Nonsense]

I was recently "informed" that a good many characters in the Bible are merely versions of what are clearly myths. The argument is based on perceived parallels.

But what makes a good parallel?

For instance, I was informed that the story of Cain and Abel is just the story of Osiris and his brother Set.

Now, in a very, very condensed (one might say "selectively" condensed) abstract, yes, we have a parallel. Two brothers. one kills the other. But when I read both stories out all the way through, to me at least, we have far more that differentiates them than relates them.

So,

1) what are some solid criteria for drawing a parallel between, say, Jesus and Dyonisius (a.k.a Bacchus)?

2) In the above case, is it important to note when certain characteristics appear in the religious description; i.e., classical scholars are agree that any attribution to Dyonisius of a "resurrection" post-dates Christianity. Is that relevant to the argument that because Dyonisius is said to have died and been raised, therefore Jesus must just be a retelling of that myth?

Wikipdia
Dionysus
Parallels with Christianity
Main article: Jesus Christ in comparative mythology
The earliest discussions of mythological parallels between Dionysus and the figure of the Christ in Christian theology can be traced to Friedrich Hölderlin, whose identification of Dionysus with Christ is most explicit in Brod und Wein (1800–1801) and Der Einzige (1801–1803).[71]
Theories regarding such parallels were popular in the 19th century. Some modern scholars such as Martin Hengel, Barry Powell, Robert M. Price, and Peter Wick, among others, argue that Dionysian religion and Christianity have notable parallels. They point to the symbolism of wine and the importance it held in the mythology surrounding both Dionysus and Jesus Christ; though, Wick argues that the use of wine symbolism in the Gospel of John, including the story of the Marriage at Cana at which Jesus turns water into wine, was intended to show Jesus as superior to Dionysus.

Scholars of comparative mythology identify both Dionysus and Jesus with the dying-and-returning god mythological archetype.[12] There are differences in the details of the event while the resurrection of Christ was placed in a specific historical and geographical context. Moreover, it has been noted that the details of Dionysus death and rebirth are starkly different both in content and symbolism from Jesus, with Dionysus being (in the most common myth) torn to pieces and eaten by the titans and "eventually restored to a new life" from the heart that was left over. Other elements, such as the celebration by a ritual meal of bread and wine, also have parallels. The omophagia was the Dionysian act of eating raw flesh and drinking wine to consume the god. Powell, in particular, argues precursors to the Catholic notion of transubstantiation can be found in Dionysian religion.

Another parallel can be seen in The Bacchae where Dionysus appears before King Pentheus on charges of claiming divinity which is compared to the New Testament scene of Jesus being interrogated by Pontius Pilate.However several scholars dispute this parallel, since while Jesus, during the trial before Pilate, did not affirm openly he was a god nor asked for any honor, Dionysus was arrested by Pentheus after making the women of Thebes mad and complaining about the fact that the city of Thebes, and its king, have refused to honor him. Moreoever, the confrontation of Dionysus and Pentheus also ends with Pentheus dying, torn into pieces by the mad women, including his mother. The details of the story, including its resolution, make the Dionysus story radically different than the one of Jesus, except for the parallel of the arrest, which is a detail that appears in many biographies as well.

Few sources reject some of the parallels between the cult of Dionysus and Christ, asserting that the similarities are superficial, often general and universal parallels found in many stories, both historical and mythical, and that the symbolism represented by the similar themes are radically different.

Scholars from the 16th century onwards, especially Gerard Vossius, also discussed the parallels between the biographies of Dionysus/Bacchus and Moses (Vossius named his sons Dionysius and Isaac). Such comparisons surface in details of paintings by Poussin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysus

The significance of Dionysus is not that Dionysus is a direct parallel and therefore the template for the stories of Jesus. Dionysus and Jesus are directly comparable in some ways, and in other ways entirely different. This is true for other Jesus figures of antiquity as well. Here for example is a list of other "crucified savior gods" of antiquity.

Thulis of Egypt, 1700 B. C.[5]
Chrishna of India, 1200 B.C.
Crite of Chaldea, 1200 B.C.[6][7]
Atys of Phrygia, 1170 B.C.
Thammuz or Tammuz of Syria, 1160 B.C.
Hesus or Eros 834 B.C.
Bali of Orissa, 725 B.C.[8]
Indra of Thibet (Tibet), 725 B.C.
Iao of Nepaul (Nepal), 622 B.C.[9][10]
Buddha Sakia (Muni) of India, 600 B.C.[11]
Mitra (Mithra) of Persia, 600 B.C.
Alcestos of Euripides, 600 B.C.
Quezalcoatl of Mexico, 587 B.C.
Wittoba of the Bilingonese, 552 B.C.[12]
Prometheus or Æschylus of Caucasus, 547 B.C.
Quirinus of Rome, 506 B.C.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World ... ed_Saviors

The important point is that these myths were already popular and in place at the time of Jesus, paving the way for for the ready acceptance of this new savior god, Jesus the Christ, who was not ancient but was current (then), and was promised to be just about to return at any moment now to usher in God's final judgement. Also a well known and prominent belief of that age.

[Willum]

You like probability, my friend, I can solve your question elegantly.
What are the odds that two religious stories have the same plot and personalities?
Essentially zero.
This means that one or the other was stolen.
BUT, how do we determine which one was the first, and which was stolen?

Hmmmm...
That's easy to, the one that came first.

So, if you don't believe in Set and Osiris, then you should not believe in a story recorded centuries after.
Dionysus and Jesus are a special case of this.
Dionysus, a Greek deity was originally quite a noble deity, defiled by Christianity in later years. He was nearly identical to Jesus in his works, and came before Jesus by at least 1100 years!

So, think about it: Jerusalem is without their savior for centuries. Waiting, waiting, just like you Christians are waiting...

Then Rome invades. Suddenly Yahwey supplants Ba'el and Elohim, Yahwey being a homophone of Jove, which the Romans take advantage of, and what happens next?

Suddenly the Jewish savior appears!
EXCEPT!
He isn't a warrior savior promised in prophesy, he is a peaceful savior who encourages Jerusalem to obey Rome and its leaders and laws.
and he has the same history as a god the Greeks have been saving in the basement for several years.

Quelle coincidence!

So you like odds, what are they?