The One, True Way.

[2ndRateMind]

So, I'm wondering if you all think your own religion, denomination, sect or cult has a monopoly on truth, and if you do, how you justify that opinion?

Or, if you think there are as many routes to enlightenment as there are people on Earth, how you distinguish between true and false religion?

Is a saving faith a matter of finding a singular, narrow path, or is it just a matter of consumer congeniality?

Best wishes, 2RM.

[marco]

What does this have to with what is true? You're trying to debate what is good and what is bad in your eyes. What does this have to do with 'the one, true way'?

By the fruit shall ye know the tree. We must have a basic set of standards to tell evil from good. Jesus assumed we had this and warned his disciples to examine results and then they could tell if the source was good or bad. In this case the source advocates killing a girl for some misdemeanour. We would, as just humans, call this wicked. So the source advocating wickedness is not a good source. It is not a receptacle of truth - going by Christ's advice.

Abraham wasn't a perfect man. This is true. Why do you add on the editorial about how you feel about it and sell it as truth?

You misunderstand completely. I am not setting myself up as a source of truth. You are claiming the Bible is such a source. It is not a choice of Marco or the Bible. You claimed to be a seeker of truth but a better description would be a defender of the Bible which, in your view, is Truth. I am taking portions of the text to illustrate that it advocates wrong doing and so is not the truth you think it is. By all means point out the good that the Book offers. I would then reply that a rotten egg has edible bits in it but remains rotten.

It is dangerous to take something patently cruel and wrong and excuse it because a Holy Book says it is okay. In this way we distort truth.

[Clownboat]

Here is some more truth as far as the Bible is concerned in this account. Abraham was Jehovah's friend. He was faithful and loyal to God to the end of his life. Abraham followed the instructions of God.

Actually, Abraham and Jehovah were not friends. It was just reported that way many years after the claimed story was to have taken place.

I will provide as much evidence for my claim as you did yours. Weeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RightReason]

[Replying to marco]

I can understand Chesterton's awe at his new-found religion, the same faith that attracted C S Lewis. It was once my beloved home too and I felt overwhelmed especially by the richness of its Latin liturgy, or hymns such as the Dies Irae. A Missa Cantata is, even now, a sip of the ethereal. Asked if he would move to some other faith, after his disenchantment with Catholicism, Joyce said: “Madam, I have lost my faith, I have not lost my mind.�

Yes, Catholicism can be found even more beautiful through its art, music, language and you are correct could be quite an ethereal experience, but as Joyce said, being disenchanted by some of the stuff going on within the Church or even having questions or doubts about certain articles of faith does not negate the knowledge that the Church is the one, true faith. As much as we may not like this priest or that priest, this choir director or that choir director, or as much as we find this moral teaching or that moral teaching difficult to live, we know we wouldn’t simply be leaving those things, we would be leaving Christ’s Church and well . . . many of us would find that foolish.

The parson, asked by the bishop if his egg was okay, replied diplomatically that it was good in parts. So too with the Bible.

I would tell the Bishop to consider if the part of his egg he is finding distasteful isn’t actually because it has been contaminated by something else on his plate – just a thought because typically if an egg is good – the whole egg is good.

[RightReason]

[Replying to post 49 by Clownboat]

Don't you find it ironic that the church, the organization that most members give 10% of their income to is purporting to be the ultimate authority?

I would find it ironic to discover Christ’s Church and where we can go for answers and not feel compelled to help them pay their electric bill.

Why is Christmas on December 25?

A topic for another thread, but is the date what matters? My husband’s family celebrated his sister’s birthday on June 3rd, until when she was around 18 and trying to get a passport they discovered her actual birthday was June 4th. Had the first 18 years of her life been a lie?

How does faith and REASON go hand in hand? Faith leads people to become Muslims, so being a Muslim or Hindu or whatever is reasonable because faith is being used?

Your statement makes my point. FAITH and REASON are necessary. A Muslim may have faith, but many of their teachings are illogical – hence the importance of reason.

[2timothy316]

Here is some more truth as far as the Bible is concerned in this account. Abraham was Jehovah's friend. He was faithful and loyal to God to the end of his life. Abraham followed the instructions of God.

Actually, Abraham and Jehovah were not friends. It was just reported that way many years after the claimed story was to have taken place.

I will provide as much evidence for my claim as you did yours. Weeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!

"The vision that Isaiah the son of Aʹmoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uz·ziʹah, Joʹtham, Aʹhaz, and Hez·e·kiʹah, kings of Judah:" Isaiah 1:1

“But you, O Israel, are my servant, You, O Jacob, whom I have chosen, The offspring of Abraham my friend." Isaiah 41:8

So what if it was reported it that way after many years. That doesn't make it untrue. According to Isaiah's visions, he was quoting Jehovah in Isaiah 41:8. I'm starting to see that people's reasons for something being untrue are very very weak.

What the above poster is saying is if they never did hear his parents ever call each other a friend until he was 10. That means they were not friends up until that time?

[RightReason]

[Replying to post 46 by 2timothy316]

This would be an impossible feat for imperfect humans.

Yes, it would. But Jesus’s Church is not merely human. You are forgetting its divine element and Christ’s promise to us.

There were even teachings is the Bible that the apostles were not entirely sure they were following correctly.

Yep, and they remained and accepted that which the Church concluded. The Church did not steer them wrong. Also, keep in mind not all practices and customs are doctrines of the Church. Different styles and customs of doing things are permitted within the Church. I am referring to how the Church cannot err on teachings regarding faith and morals.

Not all translation agree on the word 'the' pillar.

Yikes, better make sure your Church then has the correct translation because a simple deletion of the word ‘a’ could change the very meaning of something.

Again, disagree if you like. Feelings and dogma are not the concern. It is what is true.

I’m afraid you are asserting a dogma by declaring your opinion regarding the Trinity as true.

The truth is there is no record of a trinity being taught in the Bible by anyone like what is being taught today.

Again, the first Church did not have the Bible. Christians from the beginning have been told to follow Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. Not only what has been written down, but what has been passed down by word of mouth . . .

This is another opinion. Note you said 'Church History' and not Biblical history. The truth is that nowhere in the Bible does it say to celebrate Jesus birth.

No where in the Bible does it say the Bible is our sole authority. We were told to listen to the Church, “He who hears you, hears me . . . “

[2timothy316]

I am not setting myself up as a source of truth.

Ah ok, then what do you set yourself to be the source of? A question I eagerly await the answer to.

[2timothy316]

No where in the Bible does it say the Bible is our sole authority. We were told to listen to the Church, “He who hears you, hears me . . . “

Humm where did you get this quote? Here is the entire scripture.

““Whoever listens to you listens to me. And whoever disregards you disregards me also. Moreover, whoever disregards me disregards also Him who sent me.� Luke 10:16

I will never understand how people will sit there and say the Bible is not the sole authority and yet use the Bible as their sole authority.

There in Luke 10:16. Who is the one that sent Jesus? “Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth.� (Joh 17:17) Who did Jesus say who's word was truth in a prayer? Where are these words?

Is the following true? "You are near, O Jehovah, And all your commandments are truth." 119:151. Where are these commandments written?

[Clownboat]

I would find it ironic to discover Christ’s Church and where we can go for answers and not feel compelled to help them pay their electric bill.

You're obviously not thinking this through.
You are aware that members of other religions help to pay for their churches/temples?

Do you expect special treatment here? If members paying for their church/temple means something, then it should mean something. You seem to want it to mean something only when applied to your favorite religion. This seems dishonest to me, therefore followers paying for their religious buildings cannot assure us that something is true or not.

Do you agree? If not, please explain.

Why is Christmas on December 25?

A topic for another thread, but is the date what matters? My husband’s family celebrated his sister’s birthday on June 3rd, until when she was around 18 and trying to get a passport they discovered her actual birthday was June 4th. Had the first 18 years of her life been a lie?

And here lies the striking difference. We know when your husband's sister was born. Jesus was probably a real person if you ask me, but to pretend that we know his birth date is folly. The date for Christmas was chosen for the sake of the pagans as I have shown. December 25th is a pagan holiday, not the birth of some Jesus.

How does faith and REASON go hand in hand? Faith leads people to become Muslims, so being a Muslim or Hindu or whatever is reasonable because faith is being used?

Your statement makes my point.

We shall see...

FAITH and REASON are necessary.

False, in order to believe in any of the gods, only faith is required. You're to have the mind of a child there Mr. sheep. Be a good sheep to your shepherd and think like a child. Where the heck is the 'reason' in that?

A Muslim may have faith, but many of their teachings are illogical – hence the importance of reason.

Pot... meet kettle.
- Exodus 21:20-21
“And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property.

- 1 Peter 2:18
Servants, be submissive to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the harsh.

- Deuteronomy 22:20-21
But if the thing is true, and evidences of virginity are not found for the young woman, then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has done a disgraceful thing in Israel, to play the harlot in her father’s house.
(And the man?)

- Deuteronomy 23:1
“He who is emasculated by crushing or mutilation shall not enter the assembly of the LORD.

- Deuteronomy 25:11-12
If two men fight together, and the wife of one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of the one attacking him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; your eye shall not pity her.

- Leviticus 21:18-19
For any man who has a defect shall not approach: a man blind or lame, who has a marred face or any limb too long, a man who has a broken foot or broken hand, or is a hunchback or a dwarf, or a man who has a defect in his eye, or eczema or scab, or is a eunuch.

- Leviticus 20:9
For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother. His blood shall be upon him.

And on and on and on....

[Clownboat]

Here is some more truth as far as the Bible is concerned in this account. Abraham was Jehovah's friend. He was faithful and loyal to God to the end of his life. Abraham followed the instructions of God.

Actually, Abraham and Jehovah were not friends. It was just reported that way many years after the claimed story was to have taken place.

I will provide as much evidence for my claim as you did yours. Weeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!

"The vision that Isaiah the son of Aʹmoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uz·ziʹah, Joʹtham, Aʹhaz, and Hez·e·kiʹah, kings of Judah:" Isaiah 1:1

“But you, O Israel, are my servant, You, O Jacob, whom I have chosen, The offspring of Abraham my friend." Isaiah 41:8

So what if it was reported it that way after many years. That doesn't make it untrue. According to Isaiah's visions, he was quoting Jehovah in Isaiah 41:8. I'm starting to see that people's reasons for something being untrue are very very weak.

What the above poster is saying is if they never did hear his parents ever call each other a friend until he was 10. That means they were not friends up until that time?

What kind of 'friend' would ask another 'friend' to murder their child?

Quoting Bible verses does not make the unreasonable reasonable. This command was not the command of a friend.

I assume you have many friends. Could you imagine asking any of them to kill their child? It's a nonsensical claim you are putting forth as if it makes sense.

Perhaps if only I had the mind of a child?