The One, True Way.

[2ndRateMind]

So, I'm wondering if you all think your own religion, denomination, sect or cult has a monopoly on truth, and if you do, how you justify that opinion?

Or, if you think there are as many routes to enlightenment as there are people on Earth, how you distinguish between true and false religion?

Is a saving faith a matter of finding a singular, narrow path, or is it just a matter of consumer congeniality?

Best wishes, 2RM.

[2timothy316]

The Bible denies that it is sufficient as the complete rule of faith. Paul says that much Christian teaching is to be found in the tradition which is handed down by word of mouth (2 Tim. 2:2). He instructs us to "stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thess. 2:15).

The days of God speaking to people are over. Where Paul certainly had the ability to speak for God because Jehovah told him what to say. Paul understood this was a temporary provision. "Love never fails. But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with. For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially, but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with." - 1 Cor 13:8, 10

The days of men speaking for God are over.

[2timothy316]

'Abraham was God's friend'

I doubt these words, and here is why. Please address them if you can like you were unable to do the first time.
"What kind of friend would ask another friend to murder one of their children?"

The kind of friend that test trustworthiness because they are about to give them a huge blessing by making their family line from where everlasting life for anyone who wants to also be God's friend will be possible.

So if you are asking me if I'd do the same as Abraham. You bet I would! I'd have the same reckoning he did, “that God was able to raise him up even from the dead,�.—Heb 11:17-19.

[Clownboat]

Implying since the Church receives money, she cannot be the ultimate authority???? I don’t understand your original remarks.

It was all right there. Why did you quote mine it out?
Here it is again...

You're obviously not thinking this through.
You are aware that members of other religions help to pay for their churches/temples?

Do you expect special treatment here? If members paying for their church/temple means something, then it should mean something. You seem to want it to mean something only when applied to your favorite religion. This seems dishonest to me, therefore followers paying for their religious buildings cannot assure us that something is true or not.

Do you agree? If not, please explain.

to pretend that we know his birth date is folly.

Sure, I’ll agree with that – making it all the more unnecessary to care what date is chosen to celebrate His birth.

It's was already unnecessary. Obviously, or they wouldn't have picked a pagan day for the claimed birth of Jesus.

The date for Christmas was chosen for the sake of the pagans as I have shown. December 25th is a pagan holiday, not the birth of some Jesus.

My daughter was born on February 14th – Valentine’s Day. Just because prior to her b-day people have celebrated February 14th by giving presents to one another doesn’t mean when we celebrate her b-day on Feb 14th we fail to make it about her and not a Hallmark Holiday. The two are not mutually exclusive. And speaking of Valentine’s Day – that is another example of what could be celebrated as a feast day for St. Valentine and recognizing his message of love or it could be simply celebrated as a pagan tradition void of religious context.

Are there any unique Christian holidays? Is it all or just most that ironically have pagan roots?
What credibility does it do for Christianity to show its pagan roots anyways?

False, in order to believe in any of the gods, only faith is required.

Not true and a great number of intelligent philosophers and great thinkers would disagree with you. There are reasonable arguments to believe in a higher being. Are you really not familiar with them?

Stay with me here please.
Faith is all that is required in order to believe in any of the gods. That doesn't mean that some people have not tried to make arguments for believing in a higher power that don't rely so much on faith. Those are not required though, and that is my claim. If a person can believe things based on faith, that person can choose a god to apply said faith to. Either way though, there is no evidence for any of the gods that I'm aware of.

Pot... meet kettle.
- Exodus 21:20-21
“And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property.

- 1 Peter 2:18
Servants, be submissive to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the harsh. . . . .

Not sure what posting these Bible verses prove. Clearly, you must not understand the meaning and significance of these passages. It is unreasonable to draw conclusions from isolated text without taking context, culture, history, audience, etc into account.

You claimed that Muslim have many illogical teachings. So does the Bible.
You don't expect me to believe that you investigated all these as you call them, 'illogical' Muslim beliefs now do you?

Pot... meet kettle.

[Clownboat]

'Abraham was God's friend'

I doubt these words, and here is why. Please address them if you can like you were unable to do the first time.
"What kind of friend would ask another friend to murder one of their children?"

The kind of friend that test trustworthiness because they are about to give them a huge blessing by making their family line from where everlasting life for anyone who wants to also be God's friend will be possible.

Why did this god not know if he could trust Abraham or not? Is this information that escaped him and only commanding his friend to kill his son was this god able to gather said info?
How is this logical?

So if you are asking me if I'd do the same as Abraham. You bet I would! I'd have the same reckoning he did, “that God was able to raise him up even from the dead,�.—Heb 11:17-19.

That is not what I asked. Obviously, you are not an all powerful god that can create universes with words. Nor can you guarantee anyone's offspring.

What I asked you was, for the third time:
"What kind of friend would ask another friend to murder one of their children?"

This stems from the claim you made about Abraham and a god being friends. An evil dictator god that is not all powerful, now that is one that I could envision making such a request. Not a friend as you put it.

[RightReason]

[Replying to post 72 by Clownboat]

It was all right there. Why did you quote mine it out?

What are you talking about? Anyone reading this thread can see what both of us posted and maybe it is me, but I have absolutely no idea what your original or subsequent comments mean. If anyone would like to explain, I would love to hear it.

It's was already unnecessary. Obviously, or they wouldn't have picked a pagan day for the claimed birth of Jesus.

Again, I’m sorry but that is an illogical comment.

Here’s a better explanation . . .

“while kowtowing to worldliness must always be a concern for Christians, the church has generally viewed efforts to reshape culture—including holidays—positively. As a theologian asserted in 320, "We hold this day holy, not like the pagans because of the birth of the sun, but because of him who made it."

http://www.christianitytoday.com/histor ... er-25.html

As you can see, since the beginning the Church has tried to meet people where they are. If the pagans were claiming Dec 25th and winter solstice as their own, the Church chose to reclaim their empty pagan practices and give the festivities actual meaning.

Faith is all that is required in order to believe in any of the gods.

Again, the logic doesn’t follow. Just because a person can believe in God by faith alone (I suppose by blindly believing without ever questioning anything), it does not negate the truth that faith does not contradict reason or reason contradict faith and that was my point.

[2timothy316]

'Abraham was God's friend'

I doubt these words, and here is why. Please address them if you can like you were unable to do the first time.
"What kind of friend would ask another friend to murder one of their children?"

The kind of friend that test trustworthiness because they are about to give them a huge blessing by making their family line from where everlasting life for anyone who wants to also be God's friend will be possible.

Why did this god not know if he could trust Abraham or not? Is this information that escaped him and only commanding his friend to kill his son was this god able to gather said info?
How is this logical?

So if you are asking me if I'd do the same as Abraham. You bet I would! I'd have the same reckoning he did, “that God was able to raise him up even from the dead,�.—Heb 11:17-19.

That is not what I asked. Obviously, you are not an all powerful god that can create universes with words. Nor can you guarantee anyone's offspring.

What I asked you was, for the third time:
"What kind of friend would ask another friend to murder one of their children?"

This stems from the claim you made about Abraham and a god being friends. An evil dictator god that is not all powerful, now that is one that I could envision making such a request. Not a friend as you put it.

So you're asking me if it wasn't God asking me? You're changing what Abraham faced with what I'd face in your question. It's apples and oranges. I will only answer a question that is like that of what Abraham faced. If it is not God asking me to give my son for him then I wouldn't give me son. God would still be my friend if He asked me. I have complete trust in Him. Unlike humans. Don't change the circumstance so that you can get an answer you want.

Any kind of friend that would have you kill one of you children and that's that is not a good friend. But God isn't that kind of friend seeing as Isaac didn't die and now goes down in history as a direct descendant of the savoir of the world. Including returning billions of people's sons to life. I'd say that's the best friend you can have. But you trying to strip the power of God from the equation and that is not the same thing.

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 72 by Clownboat]

It was all right there. Why did you quote mine it out?

What are you talking about? Anyone reading this thread can see what both of us posted and maybe it is me, but I have absolutely no idea what your original or subsequent comments mean. If anyone would like to explain, I would love to hear it.

It's was already unnecessary. Obviously, or they wouldn't have picked a pagan day for the claimed birth of Jesus.

Again, I’m sorry but that is an illogical comment.

Here’s a better explanation . . .

“while kowtowing to worldliness must always be a concern for Christians, the church has generally viewed efforts to reshape culture—including holidays—positively. As a theologian asserted in 320, "We hold this day holy, not like the pagans because of the birth of the sun, but because of him who made it."

http://www.christianitytoday.com/histor ... er-25.html

As you can see, since the beginning the Church has tried to meet people where they are. If the pagans were claiming Dec 25th and winter solstice as their own, the Church chose to reclaim their empty pagan practices and give the festivities actual meaning.

Faith is all that is required in order to believe in any of the gods.

Again, the logic doesn’t follow. Just because a person can believe in God by faith alone (I suppose by blindly believing without ever questioning anything), it does not negate the truth that faith does not contradict reason or reason contradict faith and that was my point.

It seems like I'm talking past you, for that I'm sorry.
I trust the readers have kept up.

[Clownboat]

So you're asking me if it wasn't God asking me?

Correct. You're claiming a friend made this request after all. In the story, I propose that a god was asking Abraham to murder his child as some sort of a sick test.

This is not something that a friend would do is what I am arguing.

You're changing what Abraham faced with what I'd face in your question. It's apples and oranges. I will only answer a question that is like that of what Abraham faced.

I cannot imagine you asking a friend of yours to offer up their son to you as a burnt sacrifice.

If it is not God asking me to give my son for him then I wouldn't give me son.

And there we have it. This was the request of a god, not a friend. You seem to admit that this is not something a friend would do. Now a god... What is it with the gods and their human sacrifices anyways?

God would still be my friend if He asked me.

Not mine. I would be afraid that this was a test, and I happen to believe that murder is evil. I would hate to fail the test and be shown to be a willing murderer. Only the gods can make murder and genocide acceptable up to the point where we are still considering them friends.
I suggest you have friends that don't commit murder and genocide personally.

I have complete trust in Him.

There have been a lot of crazies in our history committing atrocities on behalf of their god. I hope yours never asks you to do something evil.

Any kind of friend that would have you kill one of you children and that's that is not a good friend. But God isn't that kind of friend seeing as Isaac didn't die and now goes down in history as a direct descendant of the savoir of the world. Including returning billions of people's sons to life. I'd say that's the best friend you can have. But you trying to strip the power of God from the equation and that is not the same thing.

Now you are just re-stating claims that are in your favorite holy book.

What seems reasonable to me is that Absolutist rulers use ideology to help achieve their goals. For example, the ideology of the "divine rights of kings" asserted that kings ruled solely because God's will had ordained they be the monarch: this was the sole source of their legitimacy.

I'm to believe that when other leaders claimed their power/legitimacy came from the gods that they were just asserting their legitimacy, but this one time, when Abraham did it, that is the one time a humans claim of legitimacy was actually established by a god? This story is lacking unicorns and dragon IMO.