Will the Parousia occur during our lifetime?

[polonius]

Jesus prophecized that the second coming would occur while some of his generation were still alive, but it didn't.

There is some claim that really occurred in 1914. But it didn't. So, what's the claim now?

www.britannica.com/topic/Jehovahs-Witnesses

The Adventist movement emerged in the 1830s around the predictions of William Miller, who proclaimed that Jesus Christ would return in 1843 or 1844.

When Christ did not return as Miller prophecied, Adventists divided into a number of factions.

During the 1870s, Charles Taze Russell established himself as an independent and controversial Adventist teacher.

He rejected belief in hell as a place of eternal torment and adopted a non-Trinitarian theology that denied the divinity of Jesus. He also interpreted the Second Coming in accordance with the literal translation of the original Greek term, parousia (“presence�), suggesting that Christ would come as an invisible presence and that the Parousia, or “Millennial Dawn,� already had occurred, in 1874.

The coming of Christ’s invisible presence signaled the end of the current order of society and would be followed by his visible presence and the establishment of the millennial kingdom on earth in 1914.

Although the kingdom did not come, Russell’s teachings motivated a number of volunteers to circulate his many books and pamphlets and a periodical, The Watchtower, and to recalculate the time of the Parousia.

So when will Christ's visible presence and the establishment of the millennial kingdom on earth occur?

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to post 143 by myth-one.com]

The thousand-year millennium will be spent resting, rejoicing, and apparently new member training, since these new spirits will judge angels and others following the second resurrection:

Yes, where indeed do you get this stuff?

By the application of "apparently" (overtly or covertly) to whatever one is writing about.

Bad hermeneutics ruin good intentions.

Know ye not that we shall judge angels?... (I Corinthians 6:3)

Paul wrote Corinthians to the Church at Corinth -- so "ye" refers to Christians.

Who are these angels which born again Christians shall judge? They "probably" include the angels who sided with Satan in his rebellion against God and are now restrained while awaiting judgment:

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. (Jude 1:6)

While some Christians may have experience in legal areas, I cannot imagine any who might have experience in judging angels.

And the judgment occurs after the millennium, and Christians will be involved with the judgment, therefore it seemed apparent to me that we might need to be taught about the process and our responsibilities in the judgment prior to the judgment!

And the only time available between our resurrection and the judgment is during the millennium.

Thus my statement that:

The thousand-year millennium will be spent resting, rejoicing, and apparently new member training, since these new spirits will judge angels and others following the second resurrection:

We are "new members" of the Kingdom of God.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 150 by myth-one.com]

Thus my statement that:

Quote:
The thousand-year millennium will be spent resting, rejoicing, and apparently new member training, since these new spirits will judge angels and others following the second resurrection:

Your explanation confirmed what I had said was happening.

That explanation included this little pearl:

" therefore it seemed apparent to me that we might"

Checkpoint had said

Yes, where indeed do you get this stuff?

By the application of "apparently" (overtly or covertly) to whatever one is writing about.

Bad hermeneutics ruin good intentions.

James 3:

1 Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.
2 We all stumble in many ways.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to post 150 by myth-one.com]

Thus my statement that:

Quote:
The thousand-year millennium will be spent resting, rejoicing, and apparently new member training, since these new spirits will judge angels and others following the second resurrection:

Your explanation confirmed what I had said was happening.

That explanation included this little pearl:

" therefore it seemed apparent to me that we might"

Checkpoint had said

Yes, where indeed do you get this stuff?

By the application of "apparently" (overtly or covertly) to whatever one is writing about.

Bad hermeneutics ruin good intentions.

James 3:

1 Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.
2 We all stumble in many ways.

I truly do not understand what you're trying to say.

Yes, I made this statement:

The thousand-year millennium will be spent resting, rejoicing, and apparently new member training, since these new spirits will judge angels and others following the second resurrection:

Yes, the "apparently new member training" was obviously my conclusion.

Is that your objection?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 152 by myth-one.com]

Thus my statement that:

Quote:
The thousand-year millennium will be spent resting, rejoicing, and apparently new member training, since these new spirits will judge angels and others following the second resurrection:

Your explanation confirmed what I had said was happening.

That explanation included this little pearl:

" therefore it seemed apparent to me that we might"

Checkpoint had said

Yes, where indeed do you get this stuff?

By the application of "apparently" (overtly or covertly) to whatever one is writing about.

Bad hermeneutics ruin good intentions.

James 3:

1 Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.
2 We all stumble in many ways.

I truly do not understand what you're trying to say.

Yes, I made this statement:

The thousand-year millennium will be spent resting, rejoicing, and apparently new member training, since these new spirits will judge angels and others following the second resurrection:

Yes, the "apparently new member training" was obviously my conclusion.

Is that your objection?

Not just to that, but to the whole statement, and to how you drew it all together to thus result in the entire conclusion stated.

[Checkpoint]

No one has yet been saved. Salvation is a "living hope" as peter states.

LOL! My goodness. This conversation is at an end.

Grace and peace to you, myth-one.

It's supposed to be a debate.

And that's your rebuttal?

WOW, Powerful.

We did both agree with St. Peter that salvation is a living hope.

That's a step in the right direction.

It is also called an inheritance, gift, promise, and reward.

And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive a hundred-fold, and shall inherit eternal life. (Matthew 19:29)

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:7)

And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. (I John 2:25)

And behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me... (Revelation 22:12)

If Christians already have their reward, there is no cause for Jesus to bring it when He returns.

But you don't want to hear anything contrary to your beliefs.

That's sad.

Yes, it is sad.

Sadenning when an impasse is reached because each fails to go that little extra mile...

The irresistible force meeting the immovable object...

...and there was such an easy way out!

[myth-one.com]

The millennium should occur within the period of years 2040 to 2061, with the likely date being the year 2042.

Would you be so kind as to explain the bases for the above?

One cannot calculate the approximate date of the Second Coming without first understanding the following verse:

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. (Exodus 20:8)

So what is the sabbath day?

It is a sign... (Exodus 31:13)

It is a sign... (Exodus 31:17)

I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign... (Ezekiel 20:12)

It is clearly a sign of something.

The Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is in six days and rested on the seventh day.

A Sabbath is a period of rest following six equal periods of work. The periods are not always equal to a day:

Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye come into the land which I give you, then shall the land keep a sabbath unto the Lord. Six years thou shalt sow thy field, and six years thou shalt prune thy vineyard, and gather in the fruit thereof; But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for the Lord: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard. (Leviticus 25:2-4)

The Sabbath defined above for farmland is to sow and harvest the land for six years, then let it rest the seventh year.

And according to the Bible, there will be a period of rest for God's people.

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. (Hebrews 4:9-10)

This period of rest for God's people will be the Millennium which begins at the Second Coming.

For the millennium to be a Sabbath, it must have been preceded by six equal periods of work.

Therefore, from the Genesis creation of man, we should have six one thousand year long periods of work before the millennium Sabbath begins!

So the sign which the six-day Genesis recreation followed by the Sabbath day of rest points to is what we are living through presently! This is the age of man. Our age will be six thousand years of work, or six days to God since a thousand years is like one of our days, followed by a thousand years of rest which is the millennium Sabbath.

Therefore, the Second Coming will occur 6,000 years from the creation of man.

Let's begin the adventure of deriving an equation for determining how to calculate the year of the Second Coming! That date will be 6,000 years from the creation of Adam.

[center]Calculating the approximate date of the Second Coming[/center]

Since the Second Coming will be 6,000 years from man's creation -- as the sign of the sabbath indicates, the goal is to determine how many years have elapsed since the creation of Adam & Eve in the garden -- then comparing that result with 6,000.

Let's begin with Adam and accumulate the sequential years by tracing mankind's genealogy forward about 2,000 years from the creation of man:

Subtotal: 0 years
Genesis 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth: (130 years)
Subtotal: 130 years
Genesis 5:6 And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos: (105 years)
Subtotal: 235 years
Genesis 5:9 And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan: (90 years)
Subtotal: 325 years
Genesis 5:12 And Cainan lived seventy years and begat Mahalaleel: (70 years)
Subtotal: 395 years
Genesis 5:15 And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared: (65 years)
Subtotal: 460 years
Genesis 5:18 And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch: (162)
Subtotal: 622 years
Genesis 5:21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah: (65 years)
Subtotal: 687 years
Genesis 5:25 And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech. (187 years)
Subtotal: 874 years
Genesis 5:28 And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:
29 And he called his name Noah, (182 years)
Subtotal: 1056 years
Genesis 5:32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, . . . (500)
Subtotal: 1556 years
Genesis 11:10 These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood: (100 years)
Subtotal: 1656 years
Genesis 11:12 And Arphaxad lived five and thirty years, and begat Salah: (35 years)
Subtotal: 1691 years
Genesis 11:14 And Salah lived thirty years, and begat Eber: (30 years)
Subtotal: 1721 years
Genesis 11:16 And Eber lived four and thirty years, and begat Peleg: (34 years)
Subtotal: 1755 years
Genesis 11:18 And Peleg lived thirty years, and begat Reu: (30 years)
Subtotal: 1785 years
Genesis 11:20 And Reu lived two and thirty years, and begat Serug: (32 years)
Subtotal: 1817 years
Genesis 11:22 And Serug lived thirty years, and begat Nahor: (30 years)
Subtotal: 1847 years
Genesis 11:24 And Nahor lived nine and twenty years, and begat Terah (29 years)
Subtotal: 1876 years
Genesis 11:26 And Terah lived seventy years, and begat Abram . . . (70 years)
Subtotal: 1946 years
Genesis 16:16 And Abram was fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram. (86 years)
Subtotal: 2032 years
Abram’s name was changed to Abraham:

Genesis 17:5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

Genesis 21:5 And Abraham was an hundred years old, when his son Isaac was born unto him. (100 years)
total: 2132 years

(The entire geneology of Jesus Christ is given in Luke 3:23-38. There are 77 generations -- Click here.)

But let's look at one generation from the above string:

Genesis 5:28 And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son: And he called his name Noah, (182 years)
Subtotal: 1056 years

Taken in context, these verses state that Lamach begat Noah 1056 years from the creation of Adam.

These 1056 years are Anno Mundi (AM) or "in the year of the world." That is, they are years measured from the first man Adam.

Coming from the other direction, (from the birth of Jesus), historical records indicate that Noah was born in the year 2948 BC.

Thus 1056 AM is the same year as 2948 BC. Noah was born in the year 1056 AM or 2948 BC.

The sum of these two numbers will be the time from the creation of Adam to the birth of Jesus as they cover that entire time.

--------(forward)-------(meeting point)-------(time backward)----- (Year 1 AD) ----------------------------- 2020 AD

Adam --------------> Noah at 1056 AM < -------------------------- Birth of Jesus --------------------------> current year
Adam --------------> Noah at 2948 BC <--------------------------- Birth of Jesus ---------------------------> current year

To the Right of "birth of Jesus" begins current time in AD.

So the current number of years since the birth of Adam will be AM + BC + AD:

1056 + 2948 +2020 = 6024 years since the creation of man.

And the second coming should have occurred (6024 - 6000) = 24 years ago in 1996.

The general equation is:

(DOB in AM) + (DOB in BC) + (present year AD) = Years since the creation of Adam

The Second Coming should be 6000 from the creation of Adam, so subtract 6000.

If the result is positive, then the Second Coming should have been that many years ago. That is, we overshot the date.

If the result is negative, then the Second Coming should occur in that many years.

Let's quickly take another pair:

Genesis 16:16 And Abram was fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram. (86 years)
Subtotal: 2032 years

Ask the internet "When was the biblical Ishmael born?" and get 1910 BC. Then:

2032 + 1910 + 2020 = 5962 years since Adam was created.

5962 - 6000 = - 38 years

So the Second coming should occur in 2020 + 38 or 2058 AD.

The accuracy for any one of the 77 generations will depend on the accuracy of the historical values.

[myth-one.com]

For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (Exodus 20:11)

The Sabbath is a sign of what is presently happening. That is, six days of work followed by a Sabbath, where a day is equal to one thousand years.

For a thousand years in thy sight are but yesterday when it is past... (Psalm 90:4)

Recognizing the sabbath as the sign it was meant to be, the age of mankind will be 6,000 years from his creation.

Then the creator will return and spend the millennium sabbath of 1,000 years with those who believe in Him as their Savior.

=====================================================

There is additional evidence that the Second Coming will occur 6,000 years from mankind's creation in chapter 12 in the book of Daniel:

6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

So it will be a time, plus a multiple of that time, plus a half of that time until all these things should be finished.

The numerical value to be associated with that period of that time is given in verse 12:

Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

So time = 1,335 days

Let the multiple of time be the number 3.

Then the time before the Second Coming and end of time would be:

Time until Second Coming = 1,335 + 3(1,335) + 1,335/2 = 6,007 days

But this is measured from the beginning of the earth.

And the age of man began after the original creation and day of rest -- which required 7 days.

So the age of man will be 6,007 days minus 7 = 6,000 days.

But a day is like a thousand years to God.

So the number derived using Daniel 12 is 6,000 years until the Second Coming as measured from the creation of mankind.

===========================================

This is the identical number which the sabbath sign points to.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 155 by myth-one.com]

The Sabbath is a sign of what is presently happening. That is, six days of work followed by a Sabbath, where a day is equal to one thousand years.

Quote:
For a thousand years in thy sight are but yesterday when it is past... (Psalm 90:4)

Recognizing the sabbath as the sign it was meant to be, the age of mankind will be 6,000 years from his creation.

Then the creator will return and spend the millennium sabbath of 1,000 years with those who believe in Him as their Savior.

Very logical, yes, but no, what you say is eisegesis, not exegesis.

1). The Sabbath is indeed a sign, but of what? Not of "what is presently happening".

What, then, is "the sign it was meant to be"?

Exodus 31:

13 "But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you.

17 It is a sign between Me and the Israelites forever

Ezekiel 20:12

I also gave them My Sabbaths as a sign between us, so that they would know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them.

That, and that only, is "the sign it was meant to be".

2). The "thousand years" verse you quoted gives no license to its misuse literally, mathematically, or for typology.

Its general meaning is clarified and balanced by Peter:

2 Peter 3:

8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

There is no "millennial Sabbath" in Scripture.

[myth-one.com]

There is no "millennial Sabbath" in Scripture.

For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (Exodus 20:11)

The Lord blessed the day in which He rested -- calling it a sabbath.

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. (Hebrews 4:9)

People of God who die before the Second Coming "rest" in their graves awaiting their resurrection.

But not all people of God will experience that rest.

Christians alive at the Second Coming will not rest in any grave, so this is not the period of rest which Hebrews 4:9 refers to.

But all Christians (those resurrected and those living at the Second Coming) will spend the millennium with our Lord.

It will be a period of rest as Satan will be locked away. We have been working against Satan:

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the Dragon, that serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. (Revelation 20:1-3)

God rested from the creation and hallowed it as a sign.

He created the heaven and the earth in six equal days and rested on the seventh day.

Likewise, a period of rest awaits the people of God.

Upon being born again at the Second Coming, we spend a thousand years with the Lord while Satan is locked away. Then Satan is released and we participate (work) in the judgment process.

Following the judgment, we reign (work) over the earth forever with our Lord.

Where might the period of rest for the people of God be -- if not the millennium?

And if the millennium is a sabbath period of rest, then it was proceeded by six equal length periods of work.

Therefore, the Second Coming should be 6,000 years from creation of mankind.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 157 by myth-one.com]


Checkpoint wrote:

There is no "millennial Sabbath" in Scripture.

myth-one wrote:

Where might the period of rest for the people of God be -- if not the millennium?

The "period of rest" starts when we are born again by resurrection, and has no end, just as eternal life does not.