Don't pray to Jesus (Matthew 6:9)?

[Faber]

Matthew 6:9
Pray, then, in this way: Our Father who is in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. (NASB)
1. The hallowing/sanctifying the name of the Lord Jesus in worship is taught in 1 Peter 3:15. See here:
viewtopic.php?t=32506
2. Mark Bird: In light of the scriptural data that support all sorts of prayer to Jesus, what do we do with Jesus’ instructions to pray to the Father (Matthew 6:9)? Does the fact that the model prayer addresses the Father and not the Son mean that we are never to address the Son (or the Spirit) in prayer? No. By giving us the model prayer, Jesus was not limiting our prayers to a certain structure or verbiage. Otherwise, we would need to eliminate using the expression “in Jesus’ name� in prayer since that is not in the Lord’s Prayer. We would also need to eliminate thanksgiving from our prayers, since that does not show up in the Lord’s Prayer. But obviously, we should give thanks to God (I Thess. 5:19). Christ's words, "Our Father which art in Heaven" do not keep us from praying to Jesus any more than his words "Give us our daily bread" keep us from praying for something to drink. And the Lord’s Prayer does not keep us from petitioning the Son any more than Christ’s instructions to “enter into the closet and pray to your Father in secret� (Matt 6:6) keep us from praying in a public setting. We learn a great deal about prayer from the model prayer, but it does not teach us everything we should know about talking to God. It is appropriate to pray to the Father directly; the Lord’s Prayer clearly shows that. However, just because we are permitted to pray, and even commanded to pray to the Father, that doesn’t mean we are not permitted to pray to the Son.
http://www.wesleyantheology.com/should- ... jesus.html

Why do some continue to cite Matthew 6:9 in thinking it teaches the Lord Jesus is not to be prayed to when it really doesn't teach that at all?

[marco]

Does the fact that the model prayer addresses the Father and not the Son mean that we are never to address the Son (or the Spirit) in prayer? No. By giving us the model prayer, Jesus was not limiting our prayers to a certain structure or verbiage. Otherwise, we would need to eliminate using the expression “in Jesus’ name� in prayer since that is not in the Lord’s Prayer. We would also need to eliminate thanksgiving from our prayers, since that does not show up in the Lord’s Prayer. But obviously, we should give thanks to God (I Thess. 5:19). Christ's words, "Our Father which art in Heaven" do not keep us from praying to Jesus any more than his words "Give us our daily bread" keep us from praying for something to drink.

The model is given to direct prayers to God, not Jesus. The content is not of course comprehensive but the subject is singular; pray to God. You suggest that the words, addressed to the father, "do not keep us from praying to Jesus". Yes, if we ignore what Christ actually tells us we can do what we like. The unfortunate example you have chosen suggests Christ would be embarrassed at having prayers directed to him.

Your case is unconvincing.

[Elijah John]

Why do some continue to cite Matthew 6:9 in thinking it teaches the Lord Jesus is not to be prayed to when it really doesn't teach that at all?

Because Jesus clearly teaches us to pray to the Father. Jesus never taught anyone to pray to himself. Others, may have done so (perhaps), but not Jesus himself.

"Hallowed be THY name", (YHVH), not "hallowed be my name".

[Faber]

Does the fact that the model prayer addresses the Father and not the Son mean that we are never to address the Son (or the Spirit) in prayer? No. By giving us the model prayer, Jesus was not limiting our prayers to a certain structure or verbiage. Otherwise, we would need to eliminate using the expression “in Jesus’ name� in prayer since that is not in the Lord’s Prayer. We would also need to eliminate thanksgiving from our prayers, since that does not show up in the Lord’s Prayer. But obviously, we should give thanks to God (I Thess. 5:19). Christ's words, "Our Father which art in Heaven" do not keep us from praying to Jesus any more than his words "Give us our daily bread" keep us from praying for something to drink.

Your case is unconvincing.

That's because you ignored 1 Peter 3:15.
I can't make you see what you don't want to.

[Faber]

Why do some continue to cite Matthew 6:9 in thinking it teaches the Lord Jesus is not to be prayed to when it really doesn't teach that at all?

Because Jesus clearly teaches us to pray to the Father. Jesus never taught anyone to pray to himself. Others, may have done so (perhaps), but not Jesus himself.

"Hallowed be THY name", (YHVH), not "hallowed be my name".

You ignored John 14:14 as well as 1 Peter 3:15.

[marco]

You ignored John 14:14 as well as 1 Peter 3:15.

Unfortunately we are not discussing with John or Peter, so you must supply arguments to support your case. But let's take John 14:14, however irrelevant.

"If ye ask anything in my name, I shall do it." Ergo, Jesus is God?

Roman Catholics ask Mary to intercede for them; they do not believe she is God. Were Jesus God he would not say that he had been "given" power from the Father, as he does in Matthew 28:18. As intermediary, Jesus can grant requests. He attributed his power to God. He did not raise himself from the dead: God did.

As for, 1 Peter 3: 15 perhaps you have misreferred, since this has nothing to do with Christ exercising the power of God. It simply suggests that we keep God in our hearts. Perhaps you've misunderstood.

[Faber]

You ignored John 14:14 as well as 1 Peter 3:15.

Roman Catholics ask Mary to intercede for them; they do not believe she is God.

They are wrong to do so since prayer is worship.
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1 Peter 3:15
Perhaps you didn't see that we are to "sanctify" Christ as Lord in our hearts which means worshiping Him.
viewtopic.php?t=32506

[marco]

They are wrong to do so since prayer is worship.

Catholics honour saints, angels and Mary. They worship Christ, which according to what Christ has taught is certainly wrong. An intentional act of regarding a being as God is not the same as honouring a dead relative. So you are entitled to criticise them for their deification of Christ but for simply treating Mary as special there is no discredit, surely. Intention counts for a lot.

Perhaps you didn't see that we are to "sanctify" Christ as Lord in our hearts which means worshiping Him.

I am not familiar with this home-made definition. Sanctus in Latin means holy; to sanctify something or someone means to treat with great honour or render holy. Beatus means blessed and to beatify someone is to regard them as exceptionally holy or saintly. You have just read too much into the words in your eagerness to find justifications for taking Jesus as Yahweh.

[Faber]

They are wrong to do so since prayer is worship.

Catholics honour saints, angels and Mary.

They pray to them and prayer is worship.

1 Peter 3:15 is taken from Isaiah 8:13 and this passage (Isaiah 8:13) refers to worship.
- Thus so does 1 Peter 3:15.

[marco]

They pray to them and prayer is worship.

ONE meaning of prayer is worship, when it is addressed to a god. Prayer may also be an entreaty, a request for help. The Church community involves the living and the dead. Perhaps you are not familiar with the verse:

2 Maccabees 12:46

It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.

Catholics ask Mary to help them. You may recall the Marriage Feast at Cana where Mary was approached to ask her son for help. So Catholics follow biblical precedent. Is this wrong?

Some claim that, if we try hard enough, the Bible can tell us exactly what we want to know. Many with false beliefs can find a Bible passage seemingly to support them. And you will know that Shakespeare reminded us, in the Merchant of Venice, that the Devil can cite Scripture for his purpose. So quoting Scripture is no guarantee of proof.