Is evolution a controversial science?

[McCulloch]

Both religion and controversial science could be taught in elective College courses where they belong.

He was referring to evolution as controversial science. While there may be quite a number of legitimate controversies within the science of biology regarding evolution, evolution itself is not a controversy at all among biologists.

Question for debate: Is evolution as taught at the high school level, a controversial science? Is there any controversy among currently practicing biologists regarding the basic science behind evolution?

[JP Cusick]

''White people'' do not even share a common genetic heritage; instead, they come from different lineages that migrated from Africa and Asia. A white man from a specific part of the world could be closer in his DNA to an African than to another white people from another specific place of the world. But all living humans go back to a common ancestor in Africa.

C: There is no base for one to consider that evolution promotes racism for ''at no level can evolutionary clusters� be identified with races. Therefore is no need for “ denouncing the racism of evolution� for it does not exists.

This is an ideal comment for me to jump back in for - because it makes the racist claim and then denies that it is racist.

The white-lies have always been a clever yet hateful kind of lies, and it is always trying to make the white people to appear righteous.

So the response = not all white people are created equal per the racist view, in that some whites are more African than white.

As like being a WASP is the highest form of white, while Jewish people are more African, and other white colored people like the Irish and Slavic and Greeks are all more African than are the WASP. Yet the Aryan Germans are all white too.

Of course the white lies goes like this = "Evolution does not teach that." - Well duh = it is the racism which teaches the racism. Double duh.

And above we see the claim of "evolutionary clusters" which means different and distinct clusters of whites, so they are the same white race with some being more African than others.

The scientific teaching of evolution is just so obviously racist pushing the white superiority that the denials are petty.

[alexxcJRO]

This is an ideal comment for me to jump back in for - because it makes the racist claim and then denies that it is racist.

The white-lies have always been a clever yet hateful kind of lies, and it is always trying to make the white people to appear righteous.

So the response = not all white people are created equal per the racist view, in that some whites are more African than white.

As like being a WASP is the highest form of white, while Jewish people are more African, and other white colored people like the Irish and Slavic and Greeks are all more African than are the WASP. Yet the Aryan Germans are all white too.

Of course the white lies goes like this = "Evolution does not teach that." - Well duh = it is the racism which teaches the racism. Double duh.

And above we see the claim of "evolutionary clusters" which means different and distinct clusters of whites, so they are the same white race with some being more African than others.

The scientific teaching of evolution is just so obviously racist pushing the white superiority that the denials are petty.

Straw manning again. WOW.
Do you not see the phrase: ''at no level can evolutionary clusters be identified with races�? )

There is not such thing as White clusters or Black clusters for ''at no level can evolutionary clusters be identified with races�.

“Studies of clustering reopened a debate on the scientific reality of race, or lack thereof. In the late 1990s Harvard evolutionary geneticist Richard Lewontin stated that "no justification can be offered for continuing the biological concept of race. (...) Genetic data shows that no matter how racial groups are defined, two people from the same racial group are about as different from each other as two people from any two different racial groups.�
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_genetic_clustering

[Neatras]

Cusick, do you acknowledge that populations of organisms can be genetically distinct from each other? Do you acknowledge that genetics play a factor in medical variables such as obesity, cancer risks, and susceptibility to heritable disease?

If you do acknowledge these things, THAT IS NOT RACIST. Recognizing physical differences that are statistically distributed across populations is NOT and endorsement of racist ideology. At no point does evolutionary theory promote racism. In fact, even if evolutionary theory were discarded, we would still need an explanation for why genetic drift can be distinct between different populations. If you wanna say that your god designed all humans, that would mean he designed them to be affected differently by different diseases based on their "race," which is about as racist as it gets. If you wanna pursue how controversial a racist god is, I'd love to go down that rabbit hole in another thread.

If you do not acknowledge that there are distinct genetic differences between isolated populations, then you are scientifically illiterate, massively uninformed, and in direct contradiction to literally every piece of evidence discovered in the entire history of the field of biology. And all your talk about "merit" would look incredibly hypocritical.

Acknowledging that different genes can be present in different populations is not racist, and is not an endorsement for bigotry. The same way observing a black widow female consuming the head of her mate is NOT an endorsement of cannibalism. It is an observed fact we continually verify just by literally looking at what happens in nature.

Again. There are no, I repeat NO, reasons for anyone to use evolutionary theory to claim that some people are superior or inferior to one another. Even if evolutionary theory didn't exist, racist arguments would not change. You are strawmanning everyone, Cusick.

People are people, and the need to treat them with equal fairness and love comes from the necessity to acknowledge that intelligent agents are cherished, and should be protected. I don't need your pathetic, racist god to know what I love, and every human alive, every last one, is just as valuable and evolved as I am. And I want to ensure humanity's survival so future generations have the chance to develop new traits and ideas. I have grown tired of you repeating your arguments while refusing to comprehend ours. Read. And think.

Now, you are on a debate forum. Start debating.

[Bust Nak]

This is an ideal comment for me to jump back in for - because it makes the racist claim and then denies that it is racist.

The white-lies have always been a clever yet hateful kind of lies, and it is always trying to make the white people to appear righteous.

That is racism against white people.

So the response = not all white people are created equal per the racist view, in that some whites are more African than white.

As like being a WASP is the highest form of white, while Jewish people are more African, and other white colored people like the Irish and Slavic and Greeks are all more African than are the WASP. Yet the Aryan Germans are all white too.

A) "Some whites are more African than other whites." Just a fact, not racist; while

B) "Some whites are more African than other whites is a racist comment" which implies a difference in quality depending of the degree of African-ness, is a racist comment.

We are saying A) where as you are saying B). So once again, who is the racist here?

[OnceConvinced]

How is saying that the smartest will often overrule the less intelligent, racist? I never mentioned anything about race.

That is because you applied it to the here-and-now.

I applied it to the argument of survival of the fittest. I was pointing out that it's also about the survival of the most intelligent. I never once insinuated anything racist in that comment. It was you that came up with the racist insinuations not me.

What I see is people who are already racist taking evolution and then pushing racist agendas based on it. Just like racist people will take the bible and push a racist agenda on that. You will also get homophobic people using the bible to push homophobia. You will also see sexist people using the bible to push their sexism.

If we are to say that evolution teaches racism, then we should also say that the bible teaches racism. And that the bible teaches homophobia and sexism. Would you be ok with that?

You said that the evolution divides people here-and-now into the higher evolved from the lower evolved = the smarter overrule the less intelligent.

There was no race card in that. It was you that added the race card. Smarter people overrule the less intelligent. Yes, that is often the case, however not once did I ever insinuated that white people were more intelligent than black people. That was your claim not mine. Evolution never taught me that white were more intelligent than black.

That is the stance of white racial superiority based on Darwinism. Link Scientific Racism

It's not MY basis. I do not believe white to be superior to blacks. Nor would I accept any teaching that would say that it is. I was never taught that white were superior to black people in biology classes. Were you?
.

Darwinism was also a huge basis for the atrocities of Nazi Germany too.

The Bible was ALSO a huge basis for the atrocities of Nazi Germany.

Racist people can take something and they can twist it to suit their own racist agenda. Just like people take the bible and use it to suit their own agenda. Should we speak of the bible as teaching racism, homophobia and sexism? Because if we go by your logic, we should.

I am not trying to blame you personally and I am not calling you personally as a racist - certainly not - but the theory of evolution includes a racist message which is widely understood.

I attack the message and not the messengers.

You were telling me that I PERSONALLY had learnt that evolution teaches racism. But like I told you I didn't. I learnt no such thing. What I did learn is that there are racist people out there who like to try to use evolution to push their own racists agenda. I have also learnt that there are people out there (ie creationists) who wish to attack evolution by accusing it of being racist.

It is people like YOU, JP who are teaching that evolution teaches racism. It is only ever people like you who have tried to teach me that.

I am being a traitor and a snitch against my own white race by telling this secret that science and Darwinism give us whites the upper level of evolution.

I do not like it.

Perhaps Darwin was a racist who was trying to use evolution to push a racist agenda? I can't really say because I have not studied anything from Darwin himself since High School.

And could it be that your agenda is to attack evolution because you don't like it?

[JP Cusick]

What I see is people who are already racist taking evolution and then pushing racist agendas based on it. Just like racist people will take the bible and push a racist agenda on that.

That is exactly what I have been saying which others deny, and the denials demonstrate their coverup instead of facing the truth.

The denials of such simple obvious reality is morally bankrupt.

I do not know of anyone today who would deny that the Bible was wrongly misused by racist to push their barbaric racism, so it seems insane for our society to repeat the exact same racist agenda under Darwinism.

It would be more honorable for Atheist to stop denying the obvious racist truth and instead try to stop the racism in Darwinism and stop the problem before it escalates further?

The denials are thereby in support of the racist agenda of white superiority.

A productive idea would be to change the racist rhetoric of the white race being the highest or latest evolved, and change the pictures which always show the white man as the highest or latest evolved, and start teaching evolution as an equality of races instead of the dividing of the present teaching of higher and lower evolved?

And I still say that lots of the misguidance happens by teaching Darwinism to students who are too young to differentiate, and so it needs to be just a select College course and do not teach it to minors.

Perhaps Darwin was a racist who was trying to use evolution to push a racist agenda? I can't really say because I have not studied anything from Darwin himself since High School.

I read 2 of Darwin's books and Darwin did not preach racism (at least did not intend to) and Darwin did not teach against God either.

The Origin of Species was extremely boring book written as a professional bio research book with lots of pictures of plants and insects, and "species" only meant divisions of the same genera, as in people being black or white, brown, oriental, were all different species (subspecies) of the same human family.

Darwin never tried to claim any origin of life as he specifically said that a Creator was possible at the beginning.

In his book - "The Descent of Man" - he made a statement which I have never forgot and still find to be a perfect declaration:

" But there can hardly be a doubt that we are descended from barbarians. " so true, and this is the same message we learn from the Bible.

And could it be that your agenda is to attack evolution because you don't like it?

No, no ~ I like evolution when it is interpreted correctly.

I see evolution as another proof of the Creator God or intelligent Designer, because evolution shows that life is dynamic and changing for the better which is exactly what we do expect from our loving Father God.

I do not like the scientific version of racism which promotes the racist agenda of African inferiority, so yes I will attack that.

[Bust Nak]

That is exactly what I have been saying...

No it wasn't. You might have meant it but that was not what you've been saying. Instead you said, and I quote:

"evolution teaches racism"

"I am not the one teaching the racist evolution of white superiority - I am the one denouncing it."

"White people view our selves as the latest evolved and thereby the highest evolved.

To claim that is not accurate about evolution is a disingenuous stance, because it is an accurate description of the racist view."

"the scientific kind of evolution which brainwashes the people into the racist and immoral ideas that people are just animals without point or purpose."

"Evolution of secular science really does push the racist ideal and it is more than just an implication."

Note how all these quotes depict evolution as racist in itself, as opposed to being hijacked by racists pushing their own agendas. It was not until post 65 before you attempted to differentiate between "evolution is racist" and "racists justify their racism by evolution" with "That is the stance of white racial superiority based on Darwinism." For someone who accused others for being morally bankrupt, it is perhaps time to admit your mistakes.

It would be more honorable for Atheist to stop denying the obvious racist truth and instead try to stop the racism in Darwinism and stop the problem before it escalates further?

It's already been stopped. Have you noticed it is no longer the 1940's?

[JP Cusick]

That is exactly what I have been saying...

No it wasn't. You might have meant it but that was not what you've been saying. Instead you said, and I quote:

"evolution teaches racism"

"I am not the one teaching the racist evolution of white superiority - I am the one denouncing it."

"White people view our selves as the latest evolved and thereby the highest evolved.

To claim that is not accurate about evolution is a disingenuous stance, because it is an accurate description of the racist view."

"the scientific kind of evolution which brainwashes the people into the racist and immoral ideas that people are just animals without point or purpose."

"Evolution of secular science really does push the racist ideal and it is more than just an implication."

Note how all these quotes depict evolution as racist in itself, as opposed to being hijacked by racists pushing their own agendas. It was not until post 65 before you attempted to differentiate between "evolution is racist" and "racists justify their racism by evolution" with "That is the stance of white racial superiority based on Darwinism." For someone who accused others for being morally bankrupt, it is perhaps time to admit your mistakes.

My agreeing with those (2) sentences of yours then that does not mean that now I am agreeing with the big denials of the racism or in agreement with the other things that you claim - certainly not.

The teaching of evolution is racist, and in my posting I gave suggestions on how to correct the problem.

You are just trying so hard to win and to make me lose that the realistic discussion gets trampled under.

It would be more honorable for Atheist to stop denying the obvious racist truth and instead try to stop the racism in Darwinism and stop the problem before it escalates further?

It's already been stopped. Have you noticed it is no longer the 1940's?

The BIG shift of whites over to Darwinism did not even really start up until after the civil rights movements of 1954-1968, when the white power based on Christianity shifted over to the call for equal rights with African Americans.

The white power based on Christian racism shifted over to Darwinism yes - but it did not stop.

[Bust Nak]

My agreeing with those (2) sentences of yours then that does not mean that now I am agreeing with the big denials of the racism or in agreement with the other things that you claim - certainly not.

The teaching of evolution is racist, and in my posting I gave suggestions on how to correct the problem.

The point was you are NOT agreeing with those 2 sentences at all. If you think that the teaching of evolution is racist, then you were NOT saying the exact same thing as "people who are already racist taking evolution and then pushing racist agendas based on it."

Just as someone who thinks "the teaching of Christianity is racist," is not agreeing with "the Bible was wrongly misused by racist to push their barbaric racism."

The BIG shift of whites over to Darwinism did not even really start up until after the civil rights movements of 1954-1968, when the white power based on Christianity shifted over to the call for equal rights with African Americans.

You have that backwards. "White power" of the 50's and 60's was a resurgence of Bible based racism.

The white power based on Christian racism shifted over to Darwinism yes - but it did not stop.

The Nazis, the last group to appeal to evolution as justification for racism (even that is stretching things a bit, given they explicitly reject Darwinism,) were defeated over 70 years ago. Racism itself hasn't stopped, but racism based on Darwinism has long since being an issue.

[JP Cusick]

The point was you are NOT agreeing with those 2 sentences at all. If you think that the teaching of evolution is racist, then you were NOT saying the exact same thing as "people who are already racist taking evolution and then pushing racist agendas based on it."

They appear to be the exact same people to me.

They were already racist who then found new power for their racism in Darwinism.

If you are trying to say that some part of that group were not racist then they simply got pushed under as the racist took over.

Just as someone who thinks "the teaching of Christianity is racist," is not agreeing with "the Bible was wrongly misused by racist to push their barbaric racism."

Christianity was dominated by racist, as it was a big factor in the US Civil War, and again in the Jim Crow laws, and now the racist moved over to Darwinism.

Both Darwin and the Bible have been misused.

You have that backwards. "White power" of the 50's and 60's was a resurgence of Bible based racism.

Yes, and the Christian racism lost that fight.

Then they turned in mass over to Darwinism as their new white-power basis.

The Nazis, the last group to appeal to evolution as justification for racism (even that is stretching things a bit, given they explicitly reject Darwinism,) were defeated over 70 years ago. Racism itself hasn't stopped, but racism based on Darwinism has long since being an issue.

There is always the infamous org called "Planned Parenthood" which was built on the foundation of the blacks being inferior evolved human race and the more black babies they can murder (abortion) then the better to help evolve the entire human race (the whites).

The entire abortion industry is not based on Christianity - it is based entirely on Darwinism.