Was Jesus just a moral Teacher, and nothing more?

[BigChrisfilm]

"I am trying here to prevent anyone from saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him [Jesus Christ]: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept his claim to be God." That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic -- on a level with a man who says he is a poached egg -- or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse .... You can shut him up for fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon; or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God. But let us not come up with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that option open to us. He did not intend to.” - C.S. Lewis

[TRANSPONDER]

...point is one could place him with the philosophers of old, Lao Tze, Socrates, Buddha, Aristotle, Muhamma...no, skip that... Kant, Mill, Heidegger, Paine, Nietzsche, Russel
...

I think Jesus is more than all of those combined.

I think his Christian invented persona in the gospels is no more and often less. His reasoning is poor, his arguments wrong and, as I've remarked before, he is moody, intolerant, snappish and generally not very admirable.

Now rather than just slinging one - line personal opinions at us why don't you tell us why you think he was so much better than those others.

Because I think his teachings are better, shows greater knowledge and understanding. But, perhaps we should start this with, what do you think is the best words of your favorite of those?

Rather than allow you to direct the discussion to trying have me find your Evidence for you (really it comes close to disrespect that you think I'd fall for that), let me propose that early iron age and even late bronze age moral codes matched and at times beat OT morals, and the best of the Greek philosophers were at least equal to NT and certainly gave more respect to reasoned logic, whereas the NT persistently despises and decries reasoning and praises imbecile gullibility.

Sure, I know it pulls the swindle of promising the moon (it promises to remove mountains but we know that doesn't happen) but this is just the political trick of 'jam tomorrow' or promising it will all be perfect if we forbear to vote the swine out of office and high time. This goes for Church, Bible and Christianity and high time it was relegated to a taxable business (if not actually a criminal scam) the mythology shelf, and a faddist belief that has NO influence whatsoever on Life, education and politics.

We look to the day.

[1213]

Rather than allow you to direct the discussion to trying have me find your Evidence for you (really it comes close to disrespect that you think I'd fall for that), let me propose that early iron age and even late bronze age moral codes matched and at times beat OT morals, and the best of the Greek philosophers were at least equal to NT and certainly gave more respect to reasoned logic, whereas the NT persistently despises and decries reasoning and praises imbecile gullibility.

Sure, I know it pulls the swindle of promising the moon (it promises to remove mountains but we know that doesn't happen) but this is just the political trick of 'jam tomorrow' or promising it will all be perfect if we forbear to vote the swine out of office and high time. This goes for Church, Bible and Christianity and high time it was relegated to a taxable business (if not actually a criminal scam) the mythology shelf, and a faddist belief that has NO influence whatsoever on Life, education and politics.

Your straw-man argument is so thick, that if it would be set on fire, the smoke would hide sun for weeks.

Unfortunately you leave me no other choice than to think you really don't have any good teachings from your favorite philosophers. It is not surprising.

But, don't worry, I have noticed your opinion.

[TRANSPONDER]

Rather than allow you to direct the discussion to trying have me find your Evidence for you (really it comes close to disrespect that you think I'd fall for that), let me propose that early iron age and even late bronze age moral codes matched and at times beat OT morals, and the best of the Greek philosophers were at least equal to NT and certainly gave more respect to reasoned logic, whereas the NT persistently despises and decries reasoning and praises imbecile gullibility.

Sure, I know it pulls the swindle of promising the moon (it promises to remove mountains but we know that doesn't happen) but this is just the political trick of 'jam tomorrow' or promising it will all be perfect if we forbear to vote the swine out of office and high time. This goes for Church, Bible and Christianity and high time it was relegated to a taxable business (if not actually a criminal scam) the mythology shelf, and a faddist belief that has NO influence whatsoever on Life, education and politics.

Your straw-man argument is so thick, that if it would be set on fire, the smoke would hide sun for weeks.

Unfortunately you leave me no other choice than to think you really don't have any good teachings from your favorite philosophers. It is not surprising.

But, don't worry, I have noticed your opinion.

I don't think that word means what you think it means. Just what is my strawman (hint Theit apologists often seem to thinnk 'strawman arguments' means 'one I don't want to accept'.

Clearly you have nothing but denial. You dismiss all the ole thinkers and philosophers; and they are considered so even if you dismiss them as easily as you dismiss anything else that doesn't suit you.

I am not worried about whether you note my opinion or not. The worry is that it won't be generally understood that the Bible isn't the fine moral guide it is claimed to be. We goddless just have to keep beavering away at that

[Wootah]

Then you have 66 books in the Bible and 27 are about not God.

I think they are about many things, also about God.

'I am the way the truth and the life no one comes to the Father but through me.'

And that means nothing to you.

To me it means what it says, Jesus is the way to God.

Now something I don't know is if your unbelief is also blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Are you a case of 'many will call me Lord' and Jesus won't know you or are you a case like all of us that because we are not God we do not hold true beliefs about God in all things.

[1213]

Now something I don't know is if your unbelief is also blaspheming the Holy Spirit. ...

Do you think there is something that I don't believe from the Bible? I think I believe the whole Bible, but, maybe you have better knowledge, so, please tell what I don't believe that is said in the Bible?

[TRANSPONDER]

Now something I don't know is if your unbelief is also blaspheming the Holy Spirit. ...

Do you think there is something that I don't believe from the Bible? I think I believe the whole Bible, but, maybe you have better knowledge, so, please tell what I don't believe that is said in the Bible?

Let me suggest OT that it says day and night appeared before the sun was made and NT you deny that Mary Magdalene heard the angelic message and saw the tomb was empty,even though Luke says she saw and heard all those things.

If you want to say you DO accept the Bible says that, I shall welcome it, because it shows the Bible is not worthy of trust.

[1213]

...
Let me suggest OT that it says day and night appeared before the sun was made....

I believe what the Bible tells about the matter.

...and NT you deny that Mary Magdalene heard the angelic message and saw the tomb was empty,even though Luke says she saw and heard all those things.
...

I believe what the Bible tells also about this matter.

[TRANSPONDER]

...
Let me suggest OT that it says day and night appeared before the sun was made....

I believe what the Bible tells about the matter.

...and NT you deny that Mary Magdalene heard the angelic message and saw the tomb was empty,even though Luke says she saw and heard all those things.
...

I believe what the Bible tells also about this matter.

No you don't. Unless you believe the day and night was made before the sun was. You should also see that Luke says that Mary Magdalene saw the angel and heard what it said. John says that she had no idea what had happened to Jesus. You do not believe what the Bible says; you believe what you would want it to say.

Classic 'ghost Bible'.

Absolutely in line withe the way you reject compelling evidence for speciation and prefer denial..unless you are not willing to accept the evidence for 'Macro' evolution.

Or indeed that the prophecy of Tyre fails. You came close but still appear to want to find a way out of admitting it.

[1213]

Unless you believe the day and night was made before the sun was.

I believe day and night happened as told in the Bible. By what is told in the Bible, it didn't require sun at the beginning.

You should also see that Luke says that Mary Magdalene saw the angel and heard what it said.

Please give the scripture that says so.

Or indeed that the prophecy of Tyre fails. ..

You can't point any real error in what Bible tells about it. And we have no real evidence for that it was rebuilt, which would mean that the old thing would be built again, not that something new would be built on top of the ruins.

[TRANSPONDER]

Unless you believe the day and night was made before the sun was.

I believe day and night happened as told in the Bible. By what is told in the Bible, it didn't require sun at the beginning.

Then what is said in the Bible is wrong, or certainly is in conflict with science. How many rightwin Religious fundamentalists would maintain that the earth was made before the sun? Never mind a cosmic imitation of day and hight, - the Bible saying 'morning oand evening'.I can only wonder that you balk at the Bible indicating that the earth was a flat circle.

You should also see that Luke says that Mary Magdalene saw the angel and heard what it said.

Please give the scripture that says so.

Luke 24 10. You should KNOW this stuff - especially since I've surely told you before.

Or indeed that the prophecy of Tyre fails. ..

You can't point any real error in what Bible tells about it. And we have no real evidence for that it was rebuilt, which would mean that the old thing would be built again, not that something new would be built on top of the ruins.

You are in denial of history and science and also yourself. Tyre was rebuilt and even if it was not (didn't need to be, as you imply) the prophecy still fails. The sound of Tyrian harps was heard, and it was a prosperous trading place ever after.