We are sometimes urged to regard the gospels as a kind of history. Let us then take Luke, chapter 3, and move through verses 23 to 38, the genealogy of Jesus right back to Adam, the very first human on planet Earth.
If we regard this sequence as silly, should we then discard everything Luke says?
OR
Given that it is sensible to regard Eden as metaphorical, since nobody witnessed Adam's birth, what does it mean if Jesus is traced back to a myth?
OR
Is it possible to find ANY sense in what Luke says here?
Is there sense in tracing Jesus back to Adam?
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alexxcJRO
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Re: Is there sense in tracing Jesus back to Adam?
Post #61[Replying to marco]
Q: What do you think of this analysis?
http://nexialinstitute.com/social_entropy.htm
Q: What do you think of this analysis?
http://nexialinstitute.com/social_entropy.htm
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
"God is a insignificant nobody. He is so unimportant that no one would even know he exists if evolution had not made possible for animals capable of abstract thought to exist and invent him"
"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
"God is a insignificant nobody. He is so unimportant that no one would even know he exists if evolution had not made possible for animals capable of abstract thought to exist and invent him"
"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."
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alexxcJRO
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Post #62
[Replying to post 59 by dio9]
Q: So if “Adam� stands for humans: males and females what does the metaphor “Eve� stands for?
Q: So if “Adam� stands for humans: males and females what does the metaphor “Eve� stands for?
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
"God is a insignificant nobody. He is so unimportant that no one would even know he exists if evolution had not made possible for animals capable of abstract thought to exist and invent him"
"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
"God is a insignificant nobody. He is so unimportant that no one would even know he exists if evolution had not made possible for animals capable of abstract thought to exist and invent him"
"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."
Post #64
I take this theological liberty from the story of Adam's outing from paradise, where as the story goes he was one with God and nature. When put out , he lost that oneness and became separated from both. I see Jesus as coming to restore that lost oneness. That's what born again means.bluethread wrote:Where do you get this. I don't see where it says that in the Scriptures and I am unaware of where that can be found in rabbinic tradition.dio9 wrote: Adam became conscious of his humanity along with it came thinking he was separate from nature.
Humanistic psychology sees Adam as not only alienated from God and nature but alienated from himself too. In answer to your question , where do you get this stuff, I'll say from Genesis and humanistic psychology they both recognize Adam is alienated.
The premise of both Christianity and humanist psychology is that alienated Adam can be reborn through therapy or faith and grace. Either way the end result is with his superior brain the basis of his self consciousness awareness of himself as the subject of his experience.
In the fullness of time the reasoning's of his superior brain will no longer separate Adam from his immediate and intuitive grasp of reality. And this is where Jesus becomes the Omega to Adam's Alpha.
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bluethread
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Post #65
[Replying to post 64 by dio9]
Thank you for the explanation. I understand the separation from nature in that the ground was cursed for Adam's sake and animals gained a fear of man. However, I see these as blessings from Adonai, given Adams knew knowledge. I am not a humanist, so I do not seek a humanistic prospective. I also, do not see where a oneness with nature fits the context of Yeshua's discussion with Nakdimon, i.e. born again. Could you explain how that fits in with that discussion?
Thank you for the explanation. I understand the separation from nature in that the ground was cursed for Adam's sake and animals gained a fear of man. However, I see these as blessings from Adonai, given Adams knew knowledge. I am not a humanist, so I do not seek a humanistic prospective. I also, do not see where a oneness with nature fits the context of Yeshua's discussion with Nakdimon, i.e. born again. Could you explain how that fits in with that discussion?
Re: Is there sense in tracing Jesus back to Adam?
Post #66bluethread wrote:
It establishes the principle that male and female are significant designations and that the collaborative Male/Female relationship is central to a stable society.
That might be called self-evident. To what level of education is such a lesson being directed? It is a lesson that cats and dogs already put into practise. Was man once so stupid?
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alexxcJRO
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Post #67
Eve is life.
Adam is humans: males and females.
In the story Eve(life) was made out of the rib of Adam(humans: males and females). Life was made from humans.
But wait humans are part of the life on this planet.
In the story both Eve(life) and Adam(humans: males and females) disobeyed God .
Q: How did life(whales) disobeyed God?
Observation: Life like whales(Moby Dick) is also part of nature.
But you say nature(therefore lifeïƒ therefore whalesïƒ therefore Moby Dick) cannot be seen as evil and was not therefore punished by God.
But somehow God according to the story punished Eve(lifeïƒ whalesïƒ Moby Dick) together with Adam(humans) which is also part of Eve(life).
Does not really make any sense.
Just a bunch of convoluted nonsense and speculation born out of desperation and need to save what cannot be saved.
Q: Are Homo erectus, Homo heidelbergensis, Homo rhodesiensis, Homo antecessor, Homo denisova, Homo floresiensis and Homo neanderthalensis Adam too? (Yes/No question)
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
"God is a insignificant nobody. He is so unimportant that no one would even know he exists if evolution had not made possible for animals capable of abstract thought to exist and invent him"
"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
"God is a insignificant nobody. He is so unimportant that no one would even know he exists if evolution had not made possible for animals capable of abstract thought to exist and invent him"
"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."
Post #68
Well as I see it God is one , in harmony with , interwoven throughout with, nature. So if Adam is not one with God he is also not one , in harmony with, interdependent with nature. in answer to the born again question, how is Jesus connected with Adam here? As I see it simply Adam was born one with God in and part of nature. Jesus calls anyone who will listen to him to be born again , one with God in and part of nature as Adam was born.bluethread wrote: [Replying to post 64 by dio9]
Thank you for the explanation. I understand the separation from nature in that the ground was cursed for Adam's sake and animals gained a fear of man. However, I see these as blessings from Adonai, given Adams knew knowledge. I am not a humanist, so I do not seek a humanistic prospective. I also, do not see where a oneness with nature fits the context of Yeshua's discussion with Nakdimon, i.e. born again. Could you explain how that fits in with that discussion?
However Jesus' call to rebirth is more special than Adam's . Jesus is calling people who had been alienated from God and nature back again. People who had been separated for some thousands of years. Where Adam didn't have that baggage at birth . Jesus had a tough job. His call to be born again had to also clear up the mess that had grown in the minds and hearts of the sons of Adam. The goal was the same , that's what I think he meant when he said you must be born again.
Jesus was not going back to Eden though, his was a birth into a level above separation and alienation from himself and the world . Rebirth promised fulfillment after alienation no longer separated. Jesus' rebirth is about a new Adam free to intuitively and immediately grasp reality with all his might and heart, a return from the ultimate exile.
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alexxcJRO
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Post #70
You supplied the meaning for the metaphors "Adam" and "Eve".
I checked to see if the new meanings are logical consistent with the story.
I am afraid it only makes it worse.
Any poetry even though it contains metaphor and other figures of speech when all are deciphered, explained one can find a logical consistent story, idea inside.
Q: Understand now?!
And let's not avoid simple questions.
Answer this:
Q: Are Homo erectus, Homo heidelbergensis, Homo rhodesiensis, Homo antecessor, Homo denisova, Homo floresiensis and Homo neanderthalensis Adam too? (Yes/No question)
Last edited by alexxcJRO on Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
"God is a insignificant nobody. He is so unimportant that no one would even know he exists if evolution had not made possible for animals capable of abstract thought to exist and invent him"
"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
"God is a insignificant nobody. He is so unimportant that no one would even know he exists if evolution had not made possible for animals capable of abstract thought to exist and invent him"
"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."
