They saw God the Son (Exodus 24:10-11)

[Faber]

Exodus 24:10-11
(10) and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself.
(11) Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they saw God, and they ate and drank. (NASB)

John 6:46
Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father. (NASB)


Since they "saw God" (Exodus 24:10-11) but it wasn't the Father (John 6:46) to whom then does "God" refer to?

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 40 by Claire Evans]

Not avoiding, just know nothing about Jaspher. So, I can not comment on it.

[For_The_Kingdom]

Exodus 24:10-11
(10) and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself.
(11) Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they saw God, and they ate and drank. (NASB)

John 6:46
Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father. (NASB)


Since they "saw God" (Exodus 24:10-11) but it wasn't the Father (John 6:46) to whom then does "God" refer to?

I guess it depends on what "saw God" means. I mean, if God appeared to you in the form of a computer...technically, you "saw" God...but did you see God in his full, natural form? Nope.

So it seems that the OT references to those who "saw" God simply means that they say him in whatever form he manifested himself in.

But the real key to all of this is, Jesus said that if you see him, you have seen the Father (John 14:9).

Therefore, Jesus is God. Not the Father, but God. Thus, TRINITY!!!

[Willum]

[Replying to post 11 by JehovahsWitness]

Doesn't your own argument strike you as apologetic and artificial?
You have to use the concepts of the Bible against what it actually said.

That and the kind of people who would undermine the work with a careless translation...
Obviously had a sense of humor.

You do realize that messages of this kind were frequently used as code?
For example,making a joke of the all-mighty, to a reasonable person, would show that they authors did not believe it was real, and were communicating something else.

This was done countless times in the OT.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 43 by Willum]

That and the kind of people who would undermine the work with a careless translation...
Obviously had a sense of humor.

Your post comes across as a good example of the pot calling the kettle black.

Doesn't your own argument strike you as apologetic and artificial?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 42 by For_The_Kingdom]

But the real key to all of this is, Jesus said that if you see him, you have seen the Father (John 14:9).

Therefore, Jesus is God. Not the Father, but God. Thus, TRINITY!!!

I don't think so.

Jesus was talking about inward character, not outward form or appearance.

He was not intimating he was God; there is no support there for any Trinity.

[marco]

[Replying to post 42 by For_The_Kingdom]

But the real key to all of this is, Jesus said that if you see him, you have seen the Father (John 14:9).

Therefore, Jesus is God. Not the Father, but God. Thus, TRINITY!!!

I don't think so.

Jesus was talking about inward character, not outward form or appearance.

He was not intimating he was God; there is no support there for any Trinity.

While I agree that the Trinity is an ingenious device to avoid polytheism I don't think one argues against it by suggesting what Jesus might have meant. To be fair, Jesus was misleading when he enquired "Who do men say that I am?" and appeared to praise Peter's apparent blasphemy. Yes, one can take each statement in different ways, but it is this very diversity in interpretation that has allowed the Trinity to take pride of place in the garden of belief. Had Jesus said: "I am certainly not God," that would have ended discussion. He didn't. All the same, I don't believe he was, nor thought himself to be. His deference to the Father is a clue.

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 1 by Faber]

By the way, read from the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. When you Google "what is the most accurate translation of the bible". this is the translation that pops up.

Wow, Google is an expert on ancient languages now? What do you find when you Google, "argumentum ad populum"? I'll give you a hint, it isn't, "Logical fallacies are the best way to determine truth."

[Tcg]

Therefore, Jesus is God. Not the Father, but God. Thus, TRINITY!!!

I realize that math may not be your specialty, but you've only listed two gods here. God the father and god the Jesus. That's two. 1 + 1 = 2. 1 + 1 does not equal 3. You get that, right?

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 42 by For_The_Kingdom]

But the real key to all of this is, Jesus said that if you see him, you have seen the Father (John 14:9).

Therefore, Jesus is God. Not the Father, but God. Thus, TRINITY!!!

I don't think so.

Jesus was talking about inward character, not outward form or appearance.

He was not intimating he was God; there is no support there for any Trinity.

While I agree that the Trinity is an ingenious device to avoid polytheism I don't think one argues against it by suggesting what Jesus might have meant. To be fair, Jesus was misleading when he enquired "Who do men say that I am?" and appeared to praise Peter's apparent blasphemy. Yes, one can take each statement in different ways, but it is this very diversity in interpretation that has allowed the Trinity to take pride of place in the garden of belief. Had Jesus said: "I am certainly not God," that would have ended discussion. He didn't. All the same, I don't believe he was, nor thought himself to be. His deference to the Father is a clue.

Here's my question. Do we truly know what Christ said? I agree the words we have say by his mouth, he is the son. The words of John take it to a whole 'nother level. As well as Paul. But, since the Tanakh and the NT are oral traditions, passed many years till written as far as we know, Is it really exactly as described? There's the big maybe.

[marco]

Therefore, Jesus is God. Not the Father, but God. Thus, TRINITY!!!

I realize that math may not be your specialty, but you've only listed two gods here. God the father and god the Jesus. That's two. 1 + 1 = 2. 1 + 1 does not equal 3. You get that, right?

Applying mathematics to the Trinity doesn't give the nice little sums you post here. In the classroom, 1 + 1 + 1 = 3, but in heaven it seems that 1 + 1 + 1 = 1. There may be in fact an unknown fourth member, or indeed others not mentioned in human affairs. It seems presumptuous to suppose that heaven's entire panthon was involved with us in the Middle East Crisis at the start of the first mellennium when we crucified a god.