Obamacare the worst of both worlds.

[DanieltheDragon]

Obamacare is not single payer. Obamacare is not Medicare/Medicaid for all. Obamacare is not a magic bullet that will solve our insurance woes.


There are some positives for sure:

Regulations on pre-existing conditions is widely popular.
Allowing children to stay on their parents health insurance after adulthood is huge.


Here is the nagging problem, while obamacare seeks to regulate the insurance industry like a single payer system it simultaneously tries to preserve a market profit driven approach, that also involves subsidizing insurance companies to keep rates artificially low.

Now there is more than one way to skin a cat for sure. This approach just seems to be the least efficient way to do it. Nor have we even really improved our cost of care Bloomberg has us 50 out of 55, we haven't really improved on the WHO ratings either. The only thing Obamacare really managed to accomplish is put 24 million folks on expensive ineffective health insurance.

In the end all Obamacare is, is a giant beuracratic handout to the insurance industry. Americans deserves something better.

[McCulloch]

[Replying to post 1 by DanieltheDragon]

When I first read the provisions of Obamacare, I was astounded. It was amazing to me that the simple common sense protections were not already in place.

By every objective measure, every other western democracy does healthcare better than the USA. Perhaps, just maybe, it is time that the USA does something that it is unaccustomed to do. Look at the examples of how others do it. Aren't you tired of overpaying for healthcare? Isn't it embarrassing that your maternal death rate only compares favourably to third world poverty ridden countries? Isn't it about time to admit the obvious? Free market economics is not a panacea. In particular, free market economics is a really bad delivery system for modern healthcare.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 1 by DanieltheDragon]

When I first read the provisions of Obamacare, I was astounded. It was amazing to me that the simple common sense protections were not already in place.

By every objective measure, every other western democracy does healthcare better than the USA. Perhaps, just maybe, it is time that the USA does something that it is unaccustomed to do. Look at the examples of how others do it. Aren't you tired of overpaying for healthcare? Isn't it embarrassing that your maternal death rate only compares favourably to third world poverty ridden countries? Isn't it about time to admit the obvious? Free market economics is not a panacea. In particular, free market economics is a really bad delivery system for modern healthcare.

I am not going to pretend to have the answers, as this is a quite complex subject. You are right though the American healthcare system is bottom of the barrel. What I don't see is why we can't take what is proven to work and adopt best practices. Sweden for example has applied a Free Market system augmented with a socialized program, it is essentially what Obamacare wishes it could be.

A free market solution that should be passed has bi partisan support is to allow us to import prescription drugs from Canada, this would create a market driven competition that would lower the cost for all. Democrats and republicans have continually shot this down though, specifically ones that take campaign contributions from the pharmaceutical industry.

[bluethread]

[Replying to post 9 by Tired of the Nonsense]

Sadly, no one has ever lost an election by underestimating the intelligence of American voters.

Hillary did, though not by much. Come to think of it, she didn't underestimate the intelligence of most of the citizens of these Untied States. She only underestimated the intelligence of those demographics who had previously voted for Obama.

[Mountainmanbob]

Well Obamacare is a dead horse. We need a replacement soon. At least a few Democrats need to get aboard with the majority of the Republicans so as to draft and approve a new plan.

It seems that at this time the Democrats will not support Trump no matter how good of a plan offered. This is hurting them with the general public but, they seem to be blinded.

The voting last week proved that the Democrats still don't carry a message.

M-Bob

[DanieltheDragon]

Well Obamacare is a dead horse. We need a replacement soon. At least a few Democrats need to get aboard with the majority of the Republicans so as to draft and approve a new plan.

It seems that at this time the Democrats will not support Trump no matter how good of a plan offered. This is hurting them with the general public but, they seem to be blinded.

The voting last week proved that the Democrats still don't carry a message.

M-Bob

Its not just democrats that disagree with this bill its republicans to. The house and senate bills adds to our national debt while simultaneously increasing overall cost of healthcare. McConnel is struggling t get 50 republicans to support it.

while I agree that the democrats are a listless party and dont know what they are doing, we should tread lightly and remember that the majority did not vote for Trump, the Majority is against this Bill. I am of the opinion that we are squadring our political capital.

it seems a bit much given this context to demand democrats get on board. We need to put together a bill we can actually support ourselves.

[bluethread]

Its not just democrats that disagree with this bill its republicans to. The house and senate bills adds to our national debt while simultaneously increasing overall cost of healthcare. McConnel is struggling t get 50 republicans to support it.

Yes, we are all doomed. The Democratic Party, not just the progressives, is based on providing largess to the electorate, and the mainline Republicans have accepted providing largess to the electorate as a given. Tocqueville rightly noted that this is the Achille's heal of our Democratic Republic and will lead to it's demise. Unless the electorate begins to face reality en masse and stop looking to the government to protect them from sickness and death, there is no hope for our Democratic Republic to survive.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 16 by bluethread]

if people would stop voting to win and started voting for ideas they agree with, we might lose campaigns on the short run but in the long run we would form coalitions around people expresing their ideals. things would be less polarized and we could actually get things done. Seems all our government can do is be incrediblly inefficient at spending money and we are largely to blame for that.

[McCulloch]

Democrats and republicans have continually shot this down though, specifically ones that take campaign contributions from the pharmaceutical industry.

One of the biggest problems with the American electoral system is the influence of big money. Again the USA could look to a few other countries for solutions.

[bluethread]

Democrats and republicans have continually shot this down though, specifically ones that take campaign contributions from the pharmaceutical industry.

One of the biggest problems with the American electoral system is the influence of big money. Again the USA could look to a few other countries for solutions.

The biggest problem with our electoral system is the size of the federal government. If we could get it out of the business of "wealth redistribution" and regulation of every detail of our lives, there would be much less incentive for graft, Ah Hem campaign contributions.

DanieltheDragon:

Seems all our government can do is be incrediblly inefficient at spending money and we are largely to blame for that.

It doesn't just seem that way, it is inherent in all forms of government. However, it is indeed our fault that we have become so dependent upon government.

[McCulloch]

At least a few Democrats need to get aboard with the majority of the Republicans so as to draft and approve a new plan. It seems that at this time the Democrats will not support Trump no matter how good of a plan offered.

A bit of a moot point isn't it? The Republican health plan is really only good for shareholders in the healthcare sector.

The voting last week proved that the Democrats still don't carry a message.

You mean the special election where the Republicans have held the seat solidly for decades; the Republicans spent more campaign funds than any other single election and they held the seat by 51 or so percent?