The Disputed Pauline Corpus

[liamconnor]

I was not sure whether this should be placed in the apologetics venue. I decided to put it here because we are not arguing for the truth of Christianity, and there are some Christians who doubt Paul wrote some of the books ascribed to him. I also thought that removing it from the more heated arena of apologetics, backs would not be up, or at least not so stiff.


QfD: several letters ascribed to Paul are claimed by some scholars to be pseudonymous: Ephesians, Colosians etc.

What is the evidence for Pauline authorship?

What is the evidence against Pauline authorship?

[Elijah John]

I was not sure whether this should be placed in the apologetics venue. I decided to put it here because we are not arguing for the truth of Christianity, and there are some Christians who doubt Paul wrote some of the books ascribed to him. I also thought that removing it from the more heated arena of apologetics, backs would not be up, or at least not so stiff.


QfD: several letters ascribed to Paul are claimed by some scholars to be pseudonymous: Ephesians, Colosians etc.

What is the evidence for Pauline authorship?

What is the evidence against Pauline authorship?

Moderator Clarification

I think your topic is fine in this forum, Liam, for the reasons you have stated.

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Moderator clarifications do not count as a strike against any posters. They serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received and/or are given at the discretion of a moderator when he or she feels a clarification of the rules is required.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 2 by Elijah John]

I am confused as to this conclusion:

. Furthermore, theological analysis should focus primarily on the level of canonical analysis. Criticism of sources, authorship, or redaction with the intent to discredit the authority of the canon are more appropriate for the Christianity and Apologetics subforum. However, such tools may be used to trace historical developments of doctrine or other subjects pertinent to theology. In other words, the Biblical books have theological authority because they are contained within the canon, regardless of any purportedly false claims to authorship and regardless of redactional interpolations.

My understanding is that C&A a more appropriate forum to question the authenticity of the source with this forum TD&D being for example, the meaning of what was written in the canon (regardless of who wrote it or how it came to be included there).


Clarification apprieciated as this opens the door to the very issues many of s wish to AVOID in this forum

JW

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 2 by Elijah John]

I am confused as to this conclusion:

. Furthermore, theological analysis should focus primarily on the level of canonical analysis. Criticism of sources, authorship, or redaction with the intent to discredit the authority of the canon are more appropriate for the Christianity and Apologetics subforum. However, such tools may be used to trace historical developments of doctrine or other subjects pertinent to theology. In other words, the Biblical books have theological authority because they are contained within the canon, regardless of any purportedly false claims to authorship and regardless of redactional interpolations.

My understanding is that C&A a more appropriate forum to question the authenticity of the source with this forum TD&D being for example, the meaning of what was written in the canon (regardless of who wrote it or how it came to be included there).


Clarification apprieciated as this opens the door to the very issues many of s wish to AVOID in this forum

JW

Moderator Clarification

Honest question, and for futher clarification: Disputing authorship is not necessarily an attempt to discredit the authority of the canon. There is no indication that is the intent of this OP or it's author.

Any further comments regarding the appropriate placement of this topic should be handled by PM.

Let us give Liam's topic a chance to get off the ground.

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C&A Guidelines


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Moderator clarifications do not count as a strike against any posters. They serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received and/or are given at the discretion of a moderator when he or she feels a clarification of the rules is required.

[JP Cusick]

... there are some Christians who doubt Paul wrote some of the books ascribed to him.

QfD: several letters ascribed to Paul are claimed by some scholars to be pseudonymous: Ephesians, Colosians etc.

What is the evidence for Pauline authorship?

What is the evidence against Pauline authorship?

I have read books about this subject and I am convinced but I do not have the evidence to supply here and now.

Some time ago I wrote down for my own record so I would remember which were which, and this is them listed below:

These 7 books scholars attribute to be written by Apostle Paul:

1) Romans
2) 1 Corinthians
3) 2 Corinthians
4) Galatians
5) Philippians
6) 1 Thessalonians
7) Philemon.

The 7 books NOT authentic Paul:

1) Ephesians
2) Colossians
3) 2 Thessalonians
4) Titus
5) 1 Timothy
6) 2 Timothy
7) 3 Corinthians (This one is not in the Bible).
---

The book of Hebrews and the book of Acts are believed to be written by the same author as the Gospel of Luke.

[ThePainefulTruth]

I was not sure whether this should be placed in the apologetics venue. I decided to put it here because we are not arguing for the truth of Christianity, and there are some Christians who doubt Paul wrote some of the books ascribed to him. I also thought that removing it from the more heated arena of apologetics, backs would not be up, or at least not so stiff.


QfD: several letters ascribed to Paul are claimed by some scholars to be pseudonymous: Ephesians, Colosians etc.

What is the evidence for Pauline authorship?

What is the evidence against Pauline authorship?

I think there's enough that we can glean from the historical Paul to know that he was a wealthy Roman citizen as a result of is Herodian ancestry who melded the religion of James' Jesus Jerusalem Church (the Ebionites?) with the pagan mystery religion of Mithraism, the Roman center of which was in his hometown of Tarsus. I further believe that for the Jerusalem Church, and many associated Jews, Paul was the beast of Revelation. "Six-hundred, threescore and six" (not "666", in anachronistic Arabic numerals), is Jewish Gematria for "Tarsus". "Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast." That number, in the O/T, also stands for great wealth.

[JP Cusick]

What is the evidence for Pauline authorship?

What is the evidence against Pauline authorship?

The ever reliable Wikipedia has lots of info = See HERE.

When I learned about the 7 authentic and the 7 that are not - then I was just so happy and relieved that the Book of Romans was legit, because that letter to the Romans has the most critically important information in it which the other letters (or books) do not have.

[cbullion]

These 7 books scholars attribute to be written by Apostle Paul:

1) Romans
2) 1 Corinthians
3) 2 Corinthians
4) Galatians
5) Philippians
6) 1 Thessalonians
7) Philemon.

The 7 books NOT authentic Paul:

1) Ephesians
2) Colossians
3) 2 Thessalonians
4) Titus
5) 1 Timothy
6) 2 Timothy
7) 3 Corinthians (This one is not in the Bible).
---

The book of Hebrews and the book of Acts are believed to be written by the same author as the Gospel of Luke.

Long Story Short The Gospel introduces the Concept of Billions being put to death "Dumb and Blind" without a warning or a sign, when God takes up Jesus along with the Saved, before the Last Remnant is Judged. (2 Samuel 18:9, Numbers 22:22-28 ... ... ... ... Zechariah 6:13-14, Genesis 40:15-22 ... ... ... ... 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, Judges 4:18-24 ... ... ... ... Micah 2:9-11/Matthew 27:50-53/Matthew 24:40-42 ... ... ... ... The Blind and Dumb are Euthanized Globally, that is the dead in Christ, the same time God performs the Rapture so the Living in Christ are taken when the Dead in Christ are Taken at the same time, then, Those that Remain are judged by BABYLON/LAMB SLAIN for 5 Months of Star Wormwood (Limited Geographic Area is Philadelphia USA stated with David in Revelation, parallel, David and the Philistines limited geographic of that day, not the same location, but a limited geographic area is stated, unless a "Sign of Divorce" declares otherwise).

Pauline Gospels, are inclined as a Snare for the "Blind and Dumb" that arises in the New Testament
(I believe we have the legal basis to properly confirm what was regurgitated and vomited up by Paul, from the Apostles)

ROMANS 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
(Jesus had no Blood Father, he was Made of the Seed of Mary Only, this is a "Blind and Dumb" statement from Paul)

I CORINTHIANS 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
I CORINTHIANS 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
(Paul is not the "Two Witnesses" Apollyon/Abaddon, neither is this position delegated to Caesar, God has not ordained the Church or the State with the ability to confirm the covenant, this is another "blind and dumb" statement)

II CORINTHIANS 1:8 For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life:
II CORINTHIANS 1:9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:
(Genetic Dan's Four Genetic Lines, are not Isolated to the Asian People, this is another "Blind and Dumb" statement. Follow the Global Census Bureau Reports, the enemy of mankind in terms of murder and etc. is not a secret, this is an open account)

GALATIANS 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
GALATIANS 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
(God's Declarative Will, to limit and refuse salvation (BLASPHEMY OF THE HOLY GHOST), takes precedence in the Gospels Law (Old Testament)................God's Permissive Will to make payment for sin through Jesus (BLASPHEMY AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT) is limited and it does not take precedence in the gospel's law.................what Paul proclaims is the reverse, and another "Blind and Dumb" statement)

PHILIPPIANS 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, [of] the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
144000 of Reuben (Holy Ghost), 144000 of Benjamin (Holy Spirit), 144000 of Joseph (Judgment Program) (1 Chronicles 5:1-2)....................Jesus is of the 144000 of Reuben as God, 144000 of Benjamin as the Son, and 144000 of Joseph as the Judge (Head of Joseph his Father)....................Jesus does not identify with the Holy Spirit until he becomes the Lamb Slain/BABYLON to make payment for sin in Revelation...................this statement is probably the most glaring "Blind and Dumb" statement from Paul.

I THESSALONIANS 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
I THESSALONIANS 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
(The Gospel is a Unified Account, see the opening statement, near the top, the Dead in Christ are not RAPTURED first and alone, and the Living in Christ are not left behind as the remnant to be judged for 5 Months by the Lamb Slain/BABYLON, we are not dead in Christ......................this is another "Dumb and Blind" statement from Paul.

PHILEMON 1:7 For we have great joy and consolation in thy love, because the bowels of the saints are refreshed by thee, brother.
We receive the "renewal of the spirit" from God pouring out his mercies..............God does not need a "renewal of the spirit" from us, we are not the authority, we are the judged.....................very clearly this is "Blind and Dumb" once again from Paul.


I Guess that is it for the glaring "Blind and Dumb" statements that is the signature of Paul. (guess just those seven books, there's probably a few more references in them, but you get the idea) (Paul is voicing the Conviction of the "Blind and Dumb" that are taken away during the Rapture along with the Faithful before 150 Days, that are taken during "Three Days of Darkness)