Jesus and his Father, forever apart?

[JehovahsWitness]

"angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven" Matthew 18:10

Since, Jesus will spend eternity on the earth (or travelling back and forth between the spirit and the physical realm), but the bible indicates that angels that will spend eternity in heaven with The father (see Matthew 18:10 above) I have a question:


#1 Do you think Jesus will be jealous of the angels?

#2 Do you think Jesus will miss time he spent constantly at his Fathers right hand side before the earth even existed (John 1:1)?

#3 Could God not have found a way for Jesus to rule the earth while at the same time being with Him (YHWH) in heaven?

#4 Where will God live when he (God) is ruling afer Jesus finally hands back the kingdom to his Father and "all things are subject" to Him [YHWH/Jehovah]?






My question is directed of course at those that believe Jesus and his Father will NOT spend eternity together in heaven in the same way as they were in the beginning.

[JehovahsWitness]

Matthew 18:20  "... where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

So is it fair to say you believe the promise of a resurrection to heavenly life in the spiritual realm, joining Jesus in the same way the human Jesus after his death and resurrection joined the Father in the spiritual realm, is found nowhere in scripture?

2 Corinthians 5: 1 “For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, should be dissolved, we are to have a building from God, [which contrasts the present house of God made by hands]> a house not made with hands, everlasting in the heavens.�

[Left Site]

Matthew 18:20  "... where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

So is it fair to say you believe the promise of a resurrection to heavenly life in the spiritual realm, joining Jesus in the same way the human Jesus after his death and resurrection joined the Father in the spiritual realm, is found nowhere in scripture?

2 Corinthians 5: 1 “For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, should be dissolved, we are to have a building from God, [which contrasts the present house of God made by hands]> a house not made with hands, everlasting in the heavens.�

It is fair to say that I believe we will yet continue to get advancing light concerning the finite details and that I am for not stagnating in our belief as if we have our understanding already perfected.

The humility of Jehovah's Witnesses as shown in their being willing to learn more as they go is what sells me on them as God's organization. But it is just as it were in the early days of the building of the congregation of God. It is a battle against our flesh, to keep the fleshly thinking that would stagnate us checked so as not to stifle that advancing light.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 32 by BusB]

Fair enough; I take that to mean that you are not sure and that you are not going to be dogmatic about it. If (correct me if I'm wrong)that is so, it would indicate you (commendably) are open to increased understanding on the topic.

If so, what about the increased understanding that ....

some people go to heaven (to literally live in the spirit realm) with God? That these people are literally "with" Jesus in that they will reside in (like the angels) in that spiritual realm.

And some people live eternally on earth under Christ's rule? That Jesus is "with" this second group in that he will by means of holy spirit guide, protect and teach them. He will not literally be on the earth "with" them.

[Left Site]

[Replying to post 32 by BusB]

Fair enough; I take that to mean that you are not sure and that you are not going to be dogmatic about it. If (correct me if I'm wrong)that is so, it would indicate you (commendably) are open to increased understanding on the topic.

If so, what about the increased understanding that ....

some people go to heaven (to literally live in the spirit realm) with God? That these people are literally "with" Jesus in that they will reside in (like the angels) in that spiritual realm.

And some people live eternally on earth under Christ's rule? That Jesus is "with" this second group in that he will by means of holy spirit guide, protect and teach them. He will not literally be on the earth "with" them.

That is correct.

I see know reason to judge anyone on the basis of having to learn and grow. I don't judge myself for having to do that so why would it be a basis for me to judge anyone else.

It is only when I see religions that for many centuries have taught the same exact things, never advancing in their understanding and staunchly defending their ideas as truth just because they are long held tenets of their faith. It is from that stagnation that people suffer most.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 32 by BusB]

Fair enough; I take that to mean that you are not sure and that you are not going to be dogmatic about it. If (correct me if I'm wrong)that is so, it would indicate you (commendably) are open to increased understanding on the topic.

If so, what about the increased understanding that ....

some people go to heaven (to literally live in the spirit realm) with God? That these people are literally "with" Jesus in that they will reside in (like the angels) in that spiritual realm.

And some people live eternally on earth under Christ's rule? That Jesus is "with" this second group in that he will by means of holy spirit guide, protect and teach them. He will not literally be on the earth "with" them.

That is correct.

I see [no] reason to judge anyone on the basis of having to learn and grow.

I appreciate that, that's commendable; so is there anything that would stop YOU from at this moment in time "learning and growing" to adopt the above position vis-a-vis the scriptures under discussion (see the words in blue above)?

[Monta]

[Replying to post 27 by JehovahsWitness]



"** We know Jehovah is in heaven and Jesus claimed he was going his way to the father, what did he mean? "

If Jehovah is in heaven, who runs the universe?

Jehovah does. Why do you ask?

I ask because it is confusing. How can HE run the universe if He's not there.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 36 by Monta]

Holy spirit. There is no part of the physical universe that is beyond His power, indeed since we are talking of an omnipotent God, the question is, effectively moot.

JW

[JehovahsWitness]

DUPLICATE

[Monta]

[Replying to post 36 by Monta]

Holy spirit. There is no part of the physical universe that is beyond His power, indeed since we are talking of an omnipotent God, the question is, effectively moot.

JW

JW quote: "** We know Jehovah is in heaven and Jesus claimed he was going his way to the father, what did he mean? "

Just want to be clear.
What you are saying is that there are three enities, God and Holy Spirit and Jesus.
God is in heaven, Holy Spirit is running the universe, Jesus up there in heaven as well and not down here even though he said, I am with you always.
Is this the new trinity?

[JehovahsWitness]

Just want to be clear.
What you are saying is that there are three enities, God and Holy Spirit and Jesus.
God is in heaven, Holy Spirit is running the universe, Jesus up there in heaven as well and not down here even though he said, I am with you always. Is this the new trinity?

My understanding is that the TRINITY teaches that there are three persons all of which are Almighty God. Jehovah's Witnesses are not trinitarians

Almighty God: The Creator of the Universe, name: YHWH (Jehovah).

Holy Spirit: Not a person at all, the holy spirit is God's active force or power. There is nothing that God cannot do with his power. For more on this see excellent post by Tigger2
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 796#868796

Jesus: Son and first creation of God, Jesus at one time did not exist. He was created by Almighty God and is His (Jehovah's) most powerful and senior creature. Jesus (also known as The Word) is not Almighty God.
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 572#751572



Hope that helps,

JW


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