Jesus on hell

[Wootah]

Luke 12

4 I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. 5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell.

That sounds like Jesus believed in Hell. Anyone disagree?

[Benoni]

God is not calling all people now.



1 Timothy 2:6 (KJV) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.



"For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and TO ALL THAT ARE AFAR OFF, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." (Acts 2:39).

1 Corinthians 15:22-24

22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


(order) Gk Strong’s NT:5001 tagma (tag'-mah); from NT:5021; something orderly in arrangement (a troop), i.e. (figuratively) a series or succession:
If God does not call you, you cannot come.

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in His own order; Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming." (I Cor. 15:22-23). There is no doubt concerning the totality of salvation for every man-- whatever was affected by death through Adam, shall be MADE ALIVE THROUGH CHRIST. The triumph of Christ is far greater than the sin of Adam. But the point that is before us is that of TIMING-- with "every man in his own order." There is DIVINE ORDER in this NEW CREATION that is being brought forth, as God gathers one by one a people unto Himself. From Calvary until this present time, God has been working in what is rightly termed "HIS FIRSTFRUITS." We who are living at the ending of this age (web ed. note: which still could be a long ways away) are still being drawn into this "firstfruits order." But never forget, the firstfruits of a harvest are the PROMISE that all the rest of the harvest will follow in its time. (Ray Prinzing)

[Left Site]

[Replying to BusB]

So are you saying Jesus need to die again because his death did not cover the sin of Adam? Perhaps we need to start killing sheep and goats that to is the law of Moses? Maybe stoning which is more law?

God hides his deepness and most believers see very little of the mysteries because they are to busy defending their bias then seek the truth.

God id not calling the whole world now so he has no need to torture those he never called.

No I am not saying that. But we know that one must place faith in Jesus death, letting their old self die as in effect with him, and rising up to life spiritually so as to walk after Christ's example in following the holy spirit.

But I agree with you about many being " too busy defending their bias then seek the truth."

That is why I am not a member of any visible religious group in the flesh.

I know that I can sound like I am a Jehovah's Witness at times, but I am not. I am a sojourner traveling the wilderness of this world with nothing to distract me from keeping my eyes on the promises of God.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com]

There all levels some 30, 60 and 100 fold. God uses all religious systems for babylon is a golden cup in the hands of the Lord.

Is this an example of "gospel truth?"

[Benoni]

[Replying to myth-one.com]

The gospel means good new. Is this not good news?

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com]

The gospel means good new. Is this not good news?

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

So as soon as all the world knows:

"There all levels some 30, 60 and 100 fold. God uses all religious systems for babylon is a golden cup in the hands of the Lord."

The end can come?

[Claire Evans]

[Replying to post 24 by Claire Evans]

Let's just say we differ on what each element represents and unless you are the Pope you don't get to impose your interpretation on others. I'm sure you agree your opinion is just one of many. I personally believe the only thing you got right is that it was directed at the Pharisees.

JW

The Pope? He gets to decide what is right! Preposterous! I gave yes or no questions. Can't you answer them, please?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 24 by Claire Evans]

Let's just say we differ on what each element represents and unless you are the Pope you don't get to impose your interpretation on others. I'm sure you agree your opinion is just one of many. I personally believe the only thing you got right is that it was directed at the Pharisees.

JW

The Pope? He gets to decide what is right! Preposterous! I gave yes or no questions. Can't you answer them, please?

The point is that the Pope declares his interpretations the ulitmate truth, without error, unless you are doing the same your interpretations are just that opinions and can be dismissed as such which I do.

I don't answer loaded questions, your questions were based on faulty premises based on your erroneous interpretations, so I ignored them.


JW

[Claire Evans]

It's the death of the body without resurrecting with a glorified one. That does not mean consciousness ceases. The memory of the evil will be forgotten to us but that does not mean the evil cease to exist. Do you forget someone who has passed away?

Jesus clearly in his parable about the rich man and Lazarus:

Luke 16:28 (ESV)
28 for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’

If hell is annihilation, then how can the rich man have consciousness?

Because he has not as yet died.

Dead men cannot speak.

When he dies he will know nothing.

That is when he is annihilated.

He did die.


2 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

If the rich man cast into hell is speaking, then he has not as yet suffered his second and permanent death.

==================================================================

Lazarus, Abraham, and the rich man died their first "death" many years ago and are now resting in their graves.

Lazarus and Abraham will be resurrected to everlasting spiritual life after the Second Coming of Christ.

The rich man will be resurrected as a human one thousand years after the Second Coming.

The rich man will then face the judgment.

After his judgment, the rich man's name will not be in the book of life, so he is cast into the lake of fire.

This is then the time period in which this parable "occurs."

All three are alive.

But the rich man is quickly suffering his second and everlasting death.

Why is the second death called the fiery lake of burning sulphur? Why does this indicate permanent death? How can the fiery lake be the grave?

Revelation 21:8 explains the second death in the most detail: “The cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars – their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.�



Matthew 8:12 â–º
But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

How can there be gnashing of teeth after the second death?

Do you believe there are demons in hell now?

Hell is actually the complete separation from God. It entails an utter feeling of desolation. This has been reported by many who have had visions of hell during a near death experience. When an atheist died, he was meant by demons who said to him, "There is no God here." This was the most terrifying thing he was ever told because of that feeling of utter desolation.




I experienced a time where God withdrew His presence from me and I was in utter agony spiritually. I must have been having a tiny fraction of what hell must have been like. The feel of utter abandonment. It got to the stage where I felt death must have been better than continuing to live like this. For me to welcome the idea of death, means the grave is no punishment. It was an escape. I wouldn't be alive to suffer spiritual torment anymore. Who's afraid of death where one won't be conscious anymore. I was delivered but realized hell was real and it wasn't the grave.

Even the devil fears hell because there is no suffering of the good to feed off. If it is just oblivion, Satan could breathe a sign of relief.

[Claire Evans]

[Replying to post 24 by Claire Evans]

Let's just say we differ on what each element represents and unless you are the Pope you don't get to impose your interpretation on others. I'm sure you agree your opinion is just one of many. I personally believe the only thing you got right is that it was directed at the Pharisees.

JW

The Pope? He gets to decide what is right! Preposterous! I gave yes or no questions. Can't you answer them, please?

The point is that the Pope declares his interpretations the ulitmate truth, without error, unless you are doing the same your interpretations are just that opinions and can be dismissed as such which I do.

I don't answer loaded questions, your questions were based on faulty premises based on your erroneous interpretations, so I ignored them.


JW

And so your opinions can be dismissed, too?

My questions were meant to ask for your opinion. They are not loaded.


Matthew 10:28New International Version (NIV)

28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Question:

After I'm dead, why would I fear somebody throwing me into a
grave?

I most certainly would not be afraid of going to oblivion.

Matthew 25:46


Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Can death be described as an eternal fire?

Yes or no?

Where do you think demons reside when they aren't possessing people? You must have an opinion about that.

[Left Site]

[Replying to post 24 by Claire Evans]

Let's just say we differ on what each element represents and unless you are the Pope you don't get to impose your interpretation on others. I'm sure you agree your opinion is just one of many. I personally believe the only thing you got right is that it was directed at the Pharisees.

JW

The Pope? He gets to decide what is right! Preposterous! I gave yes or no questions. Can't you answer them, please?

The point is that the Pope declares his interpretations the ulitmate truth, without error, unless you are doing the same your interpretations are just that opinions and can be dismissed as such which I do.

I don't answer loaded questions, your questions were based on faulty premises based on your erroneous interpretations, so I ignored them.


JW

And so your opinions can be dismissed, too?

My questions were meant to ask for your opinion. They are not loaded.


Matthew 10:28New International Version (NIV)

28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Question:

After I'm dead, why would I fear somebody throwing me into a
grave?

I most certainly would not be afraid of going to oblivion.

Matthew 25:46


Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Can death be described as an eternal fire?

Yes or no?

Where do you think demons reside when they aren't possessing people? You must have an opinion about that.

In the OT there were different depths of gravedom (sheol) for the purpose of illustrating that some would be remembered by God and resurrected while some would be forgotten by God and not resurrected. That is why you read of a "lowest sheol", or "lowest hell", and in the LXX, the "lowest hades."

For example, David said in prayer to God, "For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell." (Psalms 86:13) Hell is there "sheol", or gravedom. David was there humbly acknowledging that, due to his sins, God would be well within his right to just forget David and not restore him.

Statements such as David there made are comparisons to death and going to the grave, for that is what it can be like when ones enemies are getting the best of them. And the death which is feared to come or to exist can be either literal or figurative. The reader must use spiritual discernment.

Other scripture examples: Deuteronomy 32:22  "For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell (or, sheol), and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains."

Psalms 88:6  "Thou hast laid me in the lowest pit, in darkness, in the deeps."

When you interpret what is said by the NT writers you have to understand the ancient Hebrew's way of looking at the grave as it relates to being remembered or forgotten of God. But before we can see, we have to decide what is more important to us, being right by our own judgment or actually finding truth.

When our love for God is complete we do not fear being wrong at times. We in fact rejoice to be found wrong, for, every falsity we remove means we have come closer to being able to see truth.