The virgin story

[Willum]

Of course I have always found, in the spirit of Dennis Miller, that those people or cultures who put a high price on virginity are usually very immature.

However, allowing for that, an angel appears before Mary and gives her the good news, or opportunity, we presume she could have refused, to become the mother of Jesus.

But even scenarios on Earth, where teachers and students, trainers and cadets, officers and enlisted, are considered to have too much power over the subjects to ethically engage in procreation exercises.

How much less ethical for the lord of universe (assuming it really was the big G, and not a naughty tryst with Tiberius Panthera - like the Jewish of the time seemed to believe)... how much less ethical for the lord of the universe to subject himself "secretly" to some naive girl?

Wouldn't it have made more sense to do it publicly, say, and have a competition among likely candidates? Or at least an announcement to save the girl from the scandal of and inexplicable pregnancy? Why would you exclude women who proved themselves to be good mothers already?

Is there any other explanation for the virgin mother other than insecurity?

[marco]

Is there any other explanation for the virgin mother other than insecurity?

Yes it's an adaptation of a myth; gods have relations with humans and beget demi-gods. To preserve proprieties, given that anything sexual is taboo, Mary is declared virginal. It would have been interesting had Jesus descended from a lion and roared into existence. As it happens we know next to nothing about him - he just happened when he was thirty. At twenty seven he was in a coma.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by Willum]

Is the premise of the question, based on the assumption that there is no God? I ask because if of course there is a God there is the possibility that it was a miracle. If the discussion is based on the premise there is no God a miracle is of course not to be considered as a viable possibility.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 3 by JehovahsWitness]

No, I would not want to make the assumption to prove the assumption, that would be a no-no in-line with the cosmological argument. Please assume their is God, and by the end of it, you will disprove this assumption, as per usual.

Still waiting for you to join we non-believes JW. I have faith.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 3 by JehovahsWitness]

No, I would not want to make the assumption to prove the assumption, that would be a no-no in-line with the cosmological argument. Please assume their is God, and by the end of it, you will disprove this assumption, as per usual.

Still waiting for you to join we non-believes JW. I have faith.

Do I have to prove there is a God before presenting an argument regarding the Virgin story?

[marco]

Do I have to prove there is a God before presenting an argument regarding the Virgin story?

Of course not. You accept there is a God and then anything is possible. I think certain stories in the Bible can be examined and declared non-literal or fabrications. The virgin birth story in the account of Christ's birth, with its chorus of angels, is used to give Scriptural backing to Jesus. He is indeed the child born of a virgin mother.

The question is: were the authors inventing a story to accord with prophecy or did things happen and lo, prophecy was fulfilled? Given the imaginative account of Mary's pregnancy and delivery it is reasonable to suppose the writers USED what had been predicted to make the prediction fit their story.

Tracing Christ back to Adam is another such imaginative device that lends authority to the Lord.

[JehovahsWitness]

Do I have to prove there is a God before presenting an argument regarding the Virgin story?

Of course not.

I'll wait to hear from Willum, its his thread and I wouldn't like to derail it by introducing an element that he does not wish to be a factor in the discussion. Naturally I want to respect the premise of the question.

[marco]

I'll wait to hear from Willum, its his thread and I wouldn't like to derail it by introducing an element that he does not wish to be a factor in the discussion. Naturally I want to respect the premise of the question.

Such a pity your polite restraint denies us the privilege of hearing a proof of God's existence!

A proof of Mary's virginity might be more intriguing.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 7 by JehovahsWitness]

No, like I said, assume there is a God.
But you are allowed to change this assumption.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 7 by JehovahsWitness]

No, like I said, assume there is a God.

Okay well then, one reasonable possibility is that it was a miracle.

Since that is what was reported by contemporaries, that would have had access to interview Mary on the subject and since said child reportedly grew up to be an extraordinary miracle worker who claimed divine origins, then that possibility is more than a reasonable one.

JW