Salvation Loss. Is it possible?

[Mick]

I believe it is possible for a heaven bound Christian to end up condemned. There are many passages describing this but I believe the parable in Luke 12:42-46 is one of the clearest.

In this parable, the word "manager" is singular, showing that there is only one faithful and wise manager being spoken of. Looking at the verses, we have:

a) V.42 tells us of a faithful and wise manager (obviously a saved man) who is put in charge while the master (Jesus) is away.

b) Vs. 43-44 say that the servant will be rewarded and put in charge of all the master's possessions if the master returns and finds that the servant has remained faithful.

c) Vs. 45-46 then tells us that the same servant will be condemned and assigned a place with the unbelievers (in hell) if the master returns and finds that he is sinning and mistreating the other servants etc.

To say that the servant will be assigned a place with unbelievers makes it obvious that he was a believer initially.

To me, this is one of several parables and passages which clearly show that a Christian can be rewarded or condemned, depending on his actions.

Loss of salvation is a vitally important issue.

What do you think of this parable?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to Benoni]

Hell is a man made lie.

My friend, if you don't believe in hell (the lake of fire) then you don't believe in the Bible hence there is little chance of us having a meaningful conversation so I will leave it with you.

God bless,
Mick

The real question is, What exactly is "the lake of fire"?

What do you say it is?

[Benoni]

[Replying to Benoni]

Hell is a man made lie.

My friend, if you don't believe in hell (the lake of fire) then you don't believe in the Bible hence there is little chance of us having a meaningful conversation so I will leave it with you.

God bless,
Mick

The real question is, What exactly is "the lake of fire"?

What do you say it is?

I see this answer as amazing because the Lake of Fire is spiritual. In other words let God's Word not man's opinion to answer this profound question. The Lake of Fire is only written about in the Book of Revelation the most spiritual book ever written. John was in Spirit on the Lord's day no where does it say John was being part spiritual and part religious all religious/carnal/natural.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Benoni]

Hell is a man made lie.

My friend, if you don't believe in hell (the lake of fire) then you don't believe in the Bible hence there is little chance of us having a meaningful conversation so I will leave it with you.

God bless,
Mick

The real question is, What exactly is "the lake of fire"?

What do you say it is?

If someone would answer my previous question, we might get somewhere in the discussion. I asked, "What does it mean that death and Hades are cast INTO the lake of fire"? (Revelation 20:14)

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[ttruscott]

To say that the servant will be assigned a place with unbelievers makes it obvious that he was a believer initially.

To me, this is one of several parables and passages which clearly show that a Christian can be rewarded or condemned, depending on his actions.

Loss of salvation is a vitally important issue.

What do you think of this parable?

I know that the demons are believers who are condemned anyway. No one (no sinner of any kind) has any excuse for their unbelief because the truth of YHWH's Deity and power have been made plain to them, Rom 1:20. In other words one can be forced to believe by the truth but only those who believe by their hope in YHWH being the GOD HE claims to be is of any salvic consequence. Belief that saves is faith, not knowledge of the truth.

Jesus told miracle workers healing in His name "Begone, I never knew you." Any earthly sign of being His is meaningless, only truly being His sheep is meaningful, no matter how astray the sheep has gone.

But once you chose to be His by a free will decision of faith MADE BEFORE your will was clouded by sin then you are forever His and nothing can force HIM to not fulfill HIS promise of election to you, not even your own addiction to great evil and stubbornness against repentance and sanctification....Heb 12:5-11 will be fulfilled.

IF someone who is in a position of Christian responsibility turns again to sin, it is a sign they are a son of Cain as the first reprobate demon to turn on the church from within and infect it with hatred. Therefore I disagree with your hypothesis...

[Joe876543]

[quote="Mick"]
I believe it is possible for a heaven bound Christian to end up condemned.

It sounds as if you're saying you think a child of the Lord God can sin his way into condemnation. This may be your belief but that's your opinion and that's fine. However, that isn't what scripture says, is it?

First, do you actually think the Lord God is stupid? What you're suggesting would seem to imply that you feel that He is. Do you really believe that the Lord God would actually save someone by indwelling them with His Holy Spirit and then take the Spirit away when He already knows what the outcome of this person's life will be and whose heart He has looked into? I have no doubt the Lord God only saves those who have actually believed and repented, those whom the Lord God saw that their heart has changed.

Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. (1 John 3:9)

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. (1 John 5:18)

This is naturally speaking about our spirit and not our body. So if His seed remains in us, clearly we (our spirit) can not sin our way into condemnation. Can it?

[evilsorcerer1]

If you believe Jesus was God in the form of man you already can't be saved because that's blasphemy. I know from experience. God is the only being that is spirit, his creation is flesh (solid matter).

[onewithhim]

I believe it is possible for a heaven bound Christian to end up condemned.

It sounds as if you're saying you think a child of the Lord God can sin his way into condemnation. This may be your belief but that's your opinion and that's fine. However, that isn't what scripture says, is it?

First, do you actually think the Lord God is stupid? What you're suggesting would seem to imply that you feel that He is. Do you really believe that the Lord God would actually save someone by indwelling them with His Holy Spirit and then take the Spirit away when He already knows what the outcome of this person's life will be and whose heart He has looked into? I have no doubt the Lord God only saves those who have actually believed and repented, those whom the Lord God saw that their heart has changed.

Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. (1 John 3:9)

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. (1 John 5:18)

This is naturally speaking about our spirit and not our body. So if His seed remains in us, clearly we (our spirit) can not sin our way into condemnation. Can it?

Mick is right, and you, Joe, have ignored many comments on this subject. EVERYONE sins, and that's why Jesus died for us, because we cannot escape the consequences of Adam's rebellion---since we are his descendants. Those sins are called "original" or "Adamic" sins, and we pray for forgiveness for these every day, not even knowing, most of the time, when we commit these types of sin.

The other kind of sin is WILLFUL & DELIBERATE, sins that are PRACTICED even though the person full well knows that he is doing wrong. We can see that John is referring to the two kinds of sin at I John 5:16-18a. He mentions a sin "that does not lead to death," and the kind that DOES lead to death.

This second kind of sin is what John is referring to in verse 18. It is DELIBERATE sin.

"We know that no one who is born of God PRACTICES sins."



So everyone, even Christians, sins. What they don't do is PRACTICE sin, with no intention of stopping or asking forgiveness.


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[ttruscott]

If you believe Jesus was God in the form of man you already can't be saved because that's blasphemy. I know from experience. God is the only being that is spirit, his creation is flesh (solid matter).

HE did not create the angels ? the ministering spirits... Hebrews 1:14 Are not all angels ministering spirits [πνε�ματα, pneumata sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

Your gnosticism is just too superficial and anti-biblical.

[Checkpoint]

If you believe Jesus was God in the form of man you already can't be saved because that's blasphemy. I know from experience. God is the only being that is spirit, his creation is flesh (solid matter).

Blasphemy? How come?

What do you say about Jesus,what is your on who he was or is?

[Benoni]

[Replying to post 24 by ttruscott]

You keep throwing this word freewill around as if it is scriptural and have anything relevant to salvation. Chapter and verse please?