What is God?

[Danmark]

What is God?
Is God not beyond definition?
Why do we argue about the existence of that which is beyond definition?

[Danmark]

[Replying to marco]

I contend God suffers with us. The Hebrew prophets all said God is a historic God, concerned with humanity, involved in human affairs , a God of history , the Hebrew God cares about people, which include joys and sorrows.

Is this the same God who lost his temper and utterly destroyed 99.999999999% of everything he had just created and called 'good?' When and how did this angry destructive God start caring so much? If 'he' can change THAT much, he's not reliable.

[paarsurrey1]

[Replying to post 110 by paarsurrey1]

I understand that the positive verities found in the Universe are attributes of One-True-God.

This is where we differ slightly in understanding. All consciousness, even the negative types, are part of the overall aspects of First Source Consciousness.
Separating GOD from negative aspects of consciousness is unfruitful and most often leads to disunity.

In relation to consciousness within this universe, yes - the positive manifestations of goodness are reflective of the attributes of FSC (One-True-God) and the negative manifestations can be linked to individuate consciousnesses in form which misunderstand this concept by manifesting negative action in the name of any ideas of GOD, or for that matter even in the name of ideas which are founded on the principles of materialism where no GODs are recognized as applicable.

♦ The Dangers of Separating Human Consciousness From Any Idea of GOD

♦ Separating any idea of GOD from All other Consciousness.

I don't agree with one.

Which one don't you agree with and why don't you agree with it? Simply stating you don't agree isn't helpful, please.

Please clarify, is one's response based on Science or on Revelation from God?

Both.

If not, then it is just a conjecture, please.

Oh there is still conjecture, regardless. That is the nature of this particular experience of being human. We are not born with full knowledge or even any knowledge of a prior existence, so it is par for the course that conjecture also plays a part in nutting things out.

[Replying to post 121 by William]

Paarsurrey wrote:
Quote:
I don't agree with one.
Please clarify, is one's response based on Science or on Revelation from God?
Which one don't you agree with and why don't you agree with it?

William wrote:
Simply stating you don't agree isn't helpful, please.

William wrote:
Both.

For religion, please quote from the truthful revealed religion one believes in, with the reasons given by that religion in the word-revealed supporting it .

For science, please quote from a text-book of science or from a peer-reviewed article published in a science journal of repute.Also, please mention the discipline of science that deals God.

Regards

What is your question or concern in relation to whatever it is I said in which you do not agree?

This is where we differ slightly in understanding. All consciousness, even the negative types, are part of the overall aspects of First Source Consciousness.
Separating GOD from negative aspects of consciousness is unfruitful and most often leads to disunity.

What I don’t agree with one is:

The negative-verities are not Absolute-Verities on their own these are creation of the One-True-God for us and are given the names “Devil� or “Satan� or “Iblees� this personification is just for our identification and these instigate us on doing bad things. Similarly “Angels� and “Holy Spirit or Gabriel and or other Angels� are creation of One-True-God and this personification is just for our identification and these prompt us for doing good things.
The concepts of good and or evil/bad are for the humans to reward or not to reward by God for the deeds done by us humans.
I don’t agree that the above are part of the One-True-God, It is wrong to state that any of the above or they all together are part of One-True-God or Allah or YHVH. Separating God from negative verities is most meaningful and fruitful, and I believe it to be the reality.


While replying to this post:
1. For religion, please quote from the truthful revealed religion one believes in, with the reasons given by that religion in the word-revealed supporting it .
2. For science, please quote from a text-book of science or from a peer-reviewed article published in a science journal of repute.Also, please mention the discipline of science that deals God.
3. If it belongs to neither of the above, it will be just one’s opinion that one has a right to have and I respect one’s right, but sorry, I cannot buy it, please.

Regards

[marco]

1. For religion, please quote from the truthful revealed religion one believes in, with the reasons given by that religion in the word-revealed supporting it .
2. For science, please quote from a text-book of science or from a peer-reviewed article published in a science journal of repute.Also, please mention the discipline of science that deals God.

All religions to their followers are presumably "truthful and revealed" else people wouldn't pay their money. However, when somebody suffering from tinnitus thinks he heard God and writes it down we don't have evidence of God's "attributes". Both Yahweh and Allah display "negative verities" as you call them, when they thunder and threaten to torture people. Hardly nice traits, even in gods.

Science has no interest in God -wisely.

[dio9]

What is God?
Is God not beyond definition?
Why do we argue about the existence of that which is beyond definition?

God's is the mind that has you in it. We can't objectify God , because we are the object of God. Get it? God is the subject and Man is the object. God can't be in our mind , we are in God's mind, we are the objects of God. God cannot be understood as our object.

[marco]

God's is the mind that has you in it. We can't objectify God , because we are the object of God. Get it? God is the subject and Man is the object. God can't be in our mind , we are in God's mind, we are the objects of God. God cannot be understood as our object.

On the contrary, God was in the minds of ancient people. That is the true residence of God, be it Thor, Ra, Allah or Yahweh. God is an idea in a person's head. You have composed your idea of what God is from the materials in your mind. You are not alone. Pantheists and Pan -something else-ists go for a more sophisticated idea so as to distance themselves from the primitive picture. Personally I think it's best to imagine him as Michelangelo did, an old man with a beard reaching out hungrily for a human touch. After all, his existence depends entirely on human imagination.

[William]

[Replying to paarsurrey1]

This is where we differ slightly in understanding. All consciousness, even the negative types, are part of the overall aspects of First Source Consciousness.
Separating GOD from negative aspects of consciousness is unfruitful and most often leads to disunity.

What I don’t agree with one is:

The negative-verities are not Absolute-Verities on their own these are creation of the One-True-God for us and are given the names “Devil� or “Satan� or “Iblees� this personification is just for our identification and these instigate us on doing bad things. Similarly “Angels� and “Holy Spirit or Gabriel and or other Angels� are creation of One-True-God and this personification is just for our identification and these prompt us for doing good things.

Whether the existence of angels and devils are real or not, these creatures are not seen to be a real part of our own reality, (other than in images) which signifies that they are best seen as metaphor for behaviors which are representative of human expressions in regard to the concepts of good and evil.

In that, it is observed that humans have specific and contradictory opinions of what is
'good' and what is 'evil' and historically these are matters of politics and cultural beliefs which have evolved into organised religions.

This is precisely why there are opposing organised religions which each can and do claim to be 'the true religion' representing 'the true god' and in that it becomes a matter of personal opinion as to which one an individual will choose and which ones will be rejected as 'false' or 'of the devil'.

The concepts of good and or evil/bad are for the humans to reward or not to reward by God for the deeds done by us humans.

Please clarify this statement as it is too ambiguous in its present format.

I don’t agree that the above are part of the One-True-God,...

Which is too say, your opinion is different.

It is wrong to state that any of the above or they all together are part of One-True-God or Allah or YHVH.

You have mentioned 3 gods here. Are you doing so to separate these from one another or to say that in your opinion both Allah and YHVH are the same being and that this being is - again in your opinion - the 'One-True-God'?

Separating God from negative verities is most meaningful and fruitful, and I believe it to be the reality.

As I stated, "Separating GOD from negative aspects of consciousness is unfruitful and most often leads to disunity." The key word in that statement is 'disunity'.
The disunity comes in the expression of pointing accusation at those who differ in their opinion from yours in relation to the idea of GOD, and how that difference is expressed in violence, distrust, lack of cooperation, competition, bigotry, hypocrisy, etc et al. Hardly 'good' things which represent a 'good' GOD.

While replying to this post:
1. For religion, please quote from the truthful revealed religion one believes in, with the reasons given by that religion in the word-revealed supporting it .

Why would I need to be required to follow that rule you have set? i support Panentheism, and in that - while it may be regarded as a 'religion' it is not an organised one with doctrines, dogma, claims of divine insight and/or inspiration, has no cultural or political bias attached, is not influenced with patriarchal/matriarchal ideas attached to ideas of GOD, does not judge others for not supporting the same or see those others as 'evil' or 'servants of the devil.' etc et al.

2. For science, please quote from a text-book of science or from a peer-reviewed article published in a science journal of repute.Also, please mention the discipline of science that deals God.

Why?
Science (and the physical universe the process of science helps explain) is simply something Panentheism includes into its overall philosophy. Science presently has no way of providing evidence for theistic claims about GOD or what GOD is.

3. If it belongs to neither of the above, it will be just one’s opinion that one has a right to have and I respect one’s right, but sorry, I cannot buy it, please.

Leaving aside the opinions of science regarding what GOD is (because science has no opinion on that) what you have is your organised religion which is no more or less than the product of opinions from ancient peoples to which you as a modern day person have decided suits your personal opinion, and thus also decide that what you believe in regarding that organised religion, is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth...in your opinion.

You cannot escape the truth of that.

The truth of the matter is that it is all opinion. Buying into one opinion or another is not a sign that in doing so you have found 'the truth.' or that what you believe as 'the one true idea of what GOD is', is the truth. It might well be your opinion that it is the truth, but it is just your opinion agreeing with others opinions - see also Argumentum ad populum) and you also have a right to have that opinion , but sorry, I cannot respect the idea of GOD that you believe in because it is so full of holes as to be truthfully questionable.

♦ Separating any idea of GOD from All other Consciousness.

[William]

[Replying to post 134 by dio9]

God's is the mind that has you in it.

This is not the case, although I appreciate the thrust of your idea.

GOD is Formless Consciousness.

The mind of GOD is where form happens. GOD is not form (thus GOD is not the mind) GOD is the consciousness which goes into the mind in order to experience that which is created in the mind of GOD.
Thus, the mind of GOD = realities GOD can engage with, experience, explore etc.

In this 'you' and 'I' are aspects of GOD-consciousness engaging with, experiencing, exploring etc, in this particular reality (the physical universe).

We can't objectify God , because we are the object of God. Get it?

No. We are not the 'object' of GOD. We are not the forms we occupy. We are not made of stardust. The forms are not who we are, they are what we are experiencing this universe through.

We (aspects of GOD-consciousness) are the subject, as surely as we experience subjectively.

God is the subject and Man is the object.

No. God is the subjective and the human form ('man') is the objective. The confusion lies within the self identification. If we self identify as 'human' - as being the form - rather than the consciousness within the form, we take on the illusion of a self identity which is false and in doing so separate our self from GOD.

God can't be in our mind, we are in God's mind, we are the objects of God. God cannot be understood as our object.

No. We are not GODs object. We are integral aspects of what GOD is. Images of GOD can be created in our minds, and these will all be false.

They can be experienced as real - and I think that afterlife gives individuals the opportunity to make those images something which can be experienced as real...because the are in the mind of GOD - or more to the point - the local GOD (Earth Entity).

I am presently working on a more comprehensive explaination about this, using diagrams which might help that process - see here;

♦ The Earth Entity

Which is to say, that our experience in this physical universe is in the mind of one aspect of GOD (greater than the Earth Entity aspect of GOD) and the experience of afterlife is within the mind of another - lesser - aspect of GOD (The Earth Entity) and what our individual minds create through belief here and now - largely determines what we will experience in the next phase. (afterlife.)

In this it is all following a pattern and we become the creators of our own reality in the next phase through the medium of the mind of the Earth Entity.

I share more on this here;

♦ My thoughts on death.