A new low standard for miracles

[Justin108]

According to JP Cusick, Jesus' famous miracle of turning water into wine was nothing but Jesus making a flavoured drink mix, not unlike Kool-Aid.

John 2:11 What Jesus did here in Cana of Galilee was the first of the signs through which he revealed his glory; and his disciples believed in him.

The act of turning water into wine was a sign of Jesus' glory. How is making Kool-Aid a sign of glory?

I really said a powder as like "Kool Aid" because there are patent and trademark restriction of that actual product.

So in the 1st century no one had ever heard of a powdered drink and they would view it as a miracle which it would be.

Is this a new low for miracles?

[Inigo Montoya]

JP is a constant reminder of how much I miss Arian.

At least Arian would show you his homework (though you had to be tripping balls to make sense of it) and came to debate.

On topic, on topic...

Uhhhh, maybe it was Tang?

[Justin108]

JP is a constant reminder of how much I miss Arian.

At least Arian would show you his homework (though you had to be tripping balls to make sense of it) and came to debate.

On topic, on topic...

Uhhhh, maybe it was Tang?

Didn't you know? Arian is back. He calls himself Trump nowadays
viewtopic.php?p=878309&highlight=#878309

You can also find him here
viewtopic.php?p=877588&highlight=#877588
...trying to convince us that the world is flat

[Rufus21]

As much as I disagree with JP, I have to applaud his ability to find alternative explanations. He seems like the kind of guy who would join a cult but be the only one to not drink the Kool Aid. He won't swallow someone else's beverage, he only drinks what he makes himself.

One of my favorite quotes:

I am unorthodox to every religion but my own.

[Inigo Montoya]

[Replying to post 3 by Justin108]

Oh joy!

So the miracle isn't turning water to wine but rather in creating the first artificial powdered drink you just add water to. Glad JP is on the case.

[rikuoamero]

As much as I disagree with JP, I have to applaud his ability to find alternative explanations. He seems like the kind of guy who would join a cult but be the only one to not drink the Kool Aid. He won't swallow someone else's beverage, he only drinks what he makes himself.

One of my favorite quotes:

I am unorthodox to every religion but my own.

JP Cusick as a member of Heaven's Gate...or the Branch Davidians. Am I the only one rolling around on the floor laughing at the thought?
(For the record, I'm not stating JP couldn't be a member of either group, but going by what he's said here, what he'd do if he were)

[JP Cusick]

According to JP Cusick, Jesus' famous miracle of turning water into wine was nothing but Jesus making a flavoured drink mix, not unlike Kool-Aid.

Is this a new low for miracles?

Just for the record I also suggested that this miracle could have been that Jesus might have had a bottle of 100 proof grain alcohol in his cloak pocket and He could have used that to spike the water and then the party got fun.

My point is that it is wrong to view miracles as if a miracle has to be some act of magic.

Jesus did not wave His hands over the water and say the magic words "hocus pocus" and then the water magically turned into Boons-Farm Wine.

A miracle is not to be magical.

[Justin108]

According to JP Cusick, Jesus' famous miracle of turning water into wine was nothing but Jesus making a flavoured drink mix, not unlike Kool-Aid.

Is this a new low for miracles?

Just for the record I also suggested that this miracle could have been that Jesus might have had a bottle of 100 proof grain alcohol in his cloak pocket and He could have used that to spike the water and then the party got fun.

Oh my mistake. Thank you for pointing that out. Can you perhaps elaborate on how pouring alcohol into water is a miracle? Because if so, any kid who spikes the punch at his prom should be hailed as a saint.

[McCulloch]

[Replying to post 7 by JP Cusick]

When the headwaiter tasted the water which had become wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter called the bridegroom, and said to him, “Every man serves the good wine first, and when the people have drunk freely, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now.� This beginning of His signs Jesus did in Cana of Galilee, and manifested His glory, and His disciples believed in Him.

Does this really sound like a description of water spiked with alcohol?

[JP Cusick]

When the headwaiter tasted the water which had become wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter called the bridegroom, and said to him, “Every man serves the good wine first, and when the people have drunk freely, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now.� This beginning of His signs Jesus did in Cana of Galilee, and manifested His glory, and His disciples believed in Him.

Does this really sound like a description of water spiked with alcohol?

I do not know if that sounds like water spiked with alcohol, but there are other innuendoes:

So the first problem with that is because the "headwaiter" is judging the wine as "good or bad" which is the poisoned knowledge of Genesis 2:17, and that is judging the value and quality which is completely arbitrary and capricious and worthless.

As in what makes a wine to be "good" instead of "bad" and in the 1st century?

Perhaps he judges it as good because Jesus made it strong in alcohol? but then it might be good by having no alcohol?

Perhaps it just tasted good (as would some mixture like Cool Aid)? or for the 1st century the person might have just found that it did not taste "bad" as did most wines in those days?

Every form of alcohol including wines have to be an acquired taste because alcohol is naturally repulsive and it is never palatable at first taste.

The real question for this miracle is how (how) did Jesus perform this miracle?

Was this miracle done by magic? or was it a real miracle done by realistic means?

In my understanding it was the old Babylonian Sun God's mystery religion that used magic and sorcery, and magic is just not a real miracle.

And in the text quoted above the headwaiter did not know where that wine came from, but "the servants who had drawn the water knew" = and what did they know? was it that they knew Jesus did magic? or more sensibly they knew what Jesus did to make the water into wine.

A real miracle is realistic, as like childbirth is a beautiful miracle, and it is not magic, and yet every person has to learn or be taught where babies come from or else they view childbirth as being magical.