Is Faith an impediment to finding Truth?

[McCulloch]

Defining truth as what you believe is untruthful because you offer mere faith as truth. Faith is not truth and is often an impediment to finding truth.

Faith is confidently believing something to be true, even though available evidence and reason do not support such a belief. This kind of faith is lauded in the story of the encounter between Thomas and the post-resurrection Jesus.

Science is arguably the greatest intellectual achievement of humanity. Science only works when faith is methodologically denied and evidence only is given credence. Modern justice systems again are evidence based, not reliant on faith. When we seek the truth in specific matters, we explicitly and purposefully exclude a faith based approach.

Is faith an impediment to finding truth?
Is faith a virtue? Why or why not?
If we reject faith as a method of determining truth in most matters, why do religions continue to praise and rely on faith?

[bjs]

Faith is confidently believing something to be true, even though available evidence and reason do not support such a belief. This kind of faith is lauded in the story of the encounter between Thomas and the post-resurrection Jesus.

Science is arguably the greatest intellectual achievement of humanity. Science only works when faith is methodologically denied and evidence only is given credence. Modern justice systems again are evidence based, not reliant on faith. When we seek the truth in specific matters, we explicitly and purposefully exclude a faith based approach.

These comparisons seem problematic. The story between Thomas and the post-resurrection Jesus was not about faith that there is a God – Thomas always believed that. It was faith in Jesus as God. It was faith that Jesus’ words were true.

Compare this with the justice system. It does use evidence, but is also exceedingly reliant on faith. There is faith in the honesty and accuracy of witnesses, faith in the integrity of the lawyers and judge, faith in the jury, and faith in the justice system itself.

Science is also built on faith. There is faith that there are natural causes for the things that happen around us in the world. There is faith in our senses to accurately understand and interpret what we experience. There is faith that the physical world operates consistently throughout time and space. Without these basic tenets of faith, science would be impossible.

Is faith an impediment to finding truth?

I can be. It can also be necessary to find truth.

Is faith a virtue? Why or why not?

From a Christian point of view, yes. Based on what I have read from posters on this forum I am genuinely unsure what the word virtue means from a non-theistic point of view.

If we reject faith as a method of determining truth in most matters, why do religions continue to praise and rely on faith?

If we reject faith then then determining truth in most matters would be impossible. Read David Hume. He was probably the pinnacle of thought in agnosticism, and argued against faith in any setting. While logically consistent and entirely void of faith, his philosophies would make it impossible to determine if anything is true.

[Realworldjack]

Defining truth as what you believe is untruthful because you offer mere faith as truth. Faith is not truth and is often an impediment to finding truth.

Faith is confidently believing something to be true, even though available evidence and reason do not support such a belief. This kind of faith is lauded in the story of the encounter between Thomas and the post-resurrection Jesus.

Science is arguably the greatest intellectual achievement of humanity. Science only works when faith is methodologically denied and evidence only is given credence. Modern justice systems again are evidence based, not reliant on faith. When we seek the truth in specific matters, we explicitly and purposefully exclude a faith based approach.

Is faith an impediment to finding truth?
Is faith a virtue? Why or why not?
If we reject faith as a method of determining truth in most matters, why do religions continue to praise and rely on faith?

Faith is confidently believing something to be true, even though available evidence and reason do not support such a belief.

I am not sure where you are getting this definition from? Here is the Biblical definition,

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Do you notice the word, "evidence?" I am not sure how one gets to determine the definition?

However, we all use some sort of faith everyday. As an example, I may have no idea at all, and may not be able to explain to you how electricity works. But, I have a very strong faith in it, and I have enough faith in it to walk over to the switch panel time, and again to supply light into a room.

In other words, I may not know how it works, but I know, and have seen the evidence.

The kind of faith you are defining would be a blind faith, and there are those who posses a blind faith, for sure. But the Biblical writers never ask their audience to rest there beliefs upon a blind faith, but rather offered evidence.

Modern justice systems again are evidence based, not reliant on faith.

Good point! And have you noticed that the Biblical writers use words that would be used in a courtroom? Here are a list of some of the words they use.

evidence
proof
convict
witness
eyewitness
defense
judge
judgement
justice
guilty
innocent

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to post 2 by bjs]

Based on what I have read from posters on this forum I am genuinely unsure what the word virtue means from a non-theistic point of view.

I think it has the same meaning as any dictionary might give, eg. Merrian-Webster:

1) Conformity to a standard of right.

2) A particular moral excellence.

Having faith in the religious sense is believing the tenets of a religion without any supporting material evidence (eg. that humans have afterlives, that a personal god watches over one's activities, etc.). From my own extended family experience it is very clear (at least within that particular group) that any viewpoints not consistent with their Christian beliefs is ignored completely, no matter the scientific and physical evidence behind it (eg. the belief that human beings evolved from a great ape ancestor).

So I would vote yes on the question in the OP concering faith (in the religious sense) being an impediment to finding truth because it essentially forces the person to actively reject anything that is not consistent with the faith-based dogma they follow. Faith in the components of a justice system, or electricity, etc. is different because those things do have either material evidence to support them (electricity), and/or are derived from a set of rules and principles that can be written down and examined individually in detail. Religious faith has no such underpinning ... it is to be believed by the faithful purely on edict.

[McCulloch]

The story between Thomas and the post-resurrection Jesus was not about faith that there is a God – Thomas always believed that. It was faith in Jesus as God. It was faith that Jesus’ words were true.

It is a good thing that I was not discussing faith that there is a god. I am discussing faith in general.

Compare this with the justice system. It does use evidence, but is also exceedingly reliant on faith. There is faith in the honesty and accuracy of witnesses, faith in the integrity of the lawyers and judge, faith in the jury, and faith in the justice system itself.

Not at all. If the justice system relied on faith in the honesty of witnesses, then there would not be a crime of perjury. If it had faith in the lawyers and judge, then there wouldn't be an appeal process.

Science is also built on faith.

No. Science is the opposite of faith.

There is faith that there are natural causes for the things that happen around us in the world.

This is not faith. This is the best hypothesis based on the available evidence.

There is faith in our senses to accurately understand and interpret what we experience.

Science does not depend of this faith. It uses instruments to measure things that we cannot rely on our senses to detect accurately.

There is faith that the physical world operates consistently throughout time and space. Without these basic tenets of faith, science would be impossible.

Not faith but an assumption based on our best guess as to reality. If science could be done without assumptions, it would. Scientists continually strive to reduce the number of assumptions made. Religion tries to increase faith.

Is faith an impediment to finding truth?

It can be. It can also be necessary to find truth.

Really? How does that work?

Is faith a virtue? Why or why not?

From a Christian point of view, yes.

Why is believing stuff based on insufficient evidence a good thing? Please explain.

Based on what I have read from posters on this forum I am genuinely unsure what the word virtue means from a non-theistic point of view.

That is a rather big kettle of fish. How about for the purposes of this thread we limit ourselves to whether faith leads to truth

If we reject faith then then determining truth in most matters would be impossible. Read David Hume. He was probably the pinnacle of thought in agnosticism, and argued against faith in any setting. While logically consistent and entirely void of faith, his philosophies would make it impossible to determine if anything is true.

According to the scientific principles, the determination of truth is always privisional. Religions make the unwarranted assertion that they have a truth once for all time delivered to humanity from almighty God.

[McCulloch]

Faith is confidently believing something to be true, even though available evidence and reason do not support such a belief.

I am not sure where you are getting this definition from? Here is the Biblical definition,

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Do you notice the word, "evidence?" I am not sure how one gets to determine the definition?

Funny, I get my definition from the same place. Notice how it does not say, "Faith is based on evidence." It does say, "Faith is the evidence of things not seen." If you don't have evidence, then faith is your evidence. If it cannot be seen; if there is not sufficient tangible evidence to support what you hope for, then faith is your evidence. This is consistent with what Jesus said to Thomas and many many other biblical passages regarding faith.

However, we all use some sort of faith everyday. As an example, I may have no idea at all, and may not be able to explain to you how electricity works. But, I have a very strong faith in it, and I have enough faith in it to walk over to the switch panel time, and again to supply light into a room.

This is not faith. This is the evidence based assumption that things wil, continue to work as you have observed them to work countless times.

The kind of faith you are defining would be a blind faith, and there are those who posses a blind faith, for sure. But the Biblical writers never ask their audience to rest their beliefs upon a blind faith, but rather offered evidence.

The writers of the Bible never once make the distinction between faith and blind faith. Nor do they offer compelling evidence.

[ttruscott]

Faith is confidently believing something to be true, even though available evidence and reason do not support such a belief.

I am not sure where you are getting this definition from? Here is the Biblical definition,

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Do you notice the word, "evidence?" I am not sure how one gets to determine the definition?

evidence in Hebrews 11:1: Strong's G1650 - elegchos
Outline of Biblical Usage
- a proof, that by which a thing is proved or tested
- a conviction

The Greek supports either connotation and both the Greek and the English interpretation must be determined by context. I counted the uses of elegchos in parallel versions and found the count was 9 versions chose evidence/proof and 15 chose conviction or some simile.

It has long been my contention that the versions which chose elegchos to describe an evidence meaning proof did Christian theology a great disservice, flying in the face of the fact that we are to live by faith NOT by sight, ie proof, 2 Corinthians 5:7, and if accepted as proof is in fact contrary to the meaning of the rest of the chapter, Heb 11.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 3 by Realworldjack]

However, we all use some sort of faith everyday. As an example, I may have no idea at all, and may not be able to explain to you how electricity works. But, I have a very strong faith in it, and I have enough faith in it to walk over to the switch panel time, and again to supply light into a room.

This is a very bad analogy. Pretend I'm someone who has never seen, heard of or used electricity before. You're telling me you can have the room be filled with light? Wow! Is it a God doing it or what? Oh what's that? You just flick a switch on the wall and that's how? You can't explain it, don't understand it?
Ok, show me that this is true then.

<RWJ flicks switch> Wow. Guess you were right. Ok, I'm still scratching my head at this whole 'electricity' thing, but I'm convinced it's real. You showed that it is real.

In other words, I may not know how it works, but I know, and have seen the evidence.

So like with the electricity thing above, can you show your Christian beliefs to be true in some fashion?

[ttruscott]

Why is believing stuff based on insufficient evidence a good thing? Please explain.

I contend that all hope is based on faith, belief in an unproven future event, and without faith, without hope, mankind would be a radically different species.

Whether it is secular or religious, all hope in the future reveals the use of faith.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 2 by bjs]

I can be. It can also be necessary to find truth.

(It being faith)

Ok then bjs. Use this faith of yours. Right now, beside my arm, on my desk, I have two bottles. Can you tell me what they are and which of them is full?
A person like me would want to investigate using science to find out the answer to the above question, but you seem to be saying that faith can also be used. So I'd like a practical demonstration of your methodology please.