Why do you not accept Islam?

[DanieltheDragon]

What reasons do any here have to reject Islam?

Is Islam the most accurate representation of god?

[marco]

[Replying to post 47 by dio9]

I count hundreds of genocides on the Christian side, how many do you count on the Muslim?
Which one is more violent?

What a tough question! It is reassuring that Torquemada is dead, but today it is worrying to board a plane in case Allah is going to prove great. I think if we are talking in the present tense Islam wins the violence race quite convincingly.

[tfvespasianus]

in the present tense Islam wins the violence race quite convincingly.

‘Scoreboard’ epistemology is always suspect because it depends upon how exactly we do the counting. So, we may or may not find a way to say that Colonialism was not carried out by Christians even though virtually everyone in power was a Christian by saying that Colonialism was either ‘good’ on balance (have fun with that) or that it had nothing to do with the religion of its architects. Or perhaps we may not want to count killing one to two million ‘godless communists’ in Southeast Asia even though, again, the majority of politicians, soldiers and citizens of the country identified as ‘Christian’ by saying ‘Well, there were reasons outside Christianity that motivated killing a few million people’. Yet, we then have to find reasons for pinning doubtless atrocities by adherents to a non-Christian faith as somehow intrinsic to said faith, but also somehow representative of the faith as a whole. I think when we engage in enterprises like this we end up making tendentious assessments.

Take care,
TFV

[dio9]

[Replying to post 47 by dio9]

I count hundreds of genocides on the Christian side, how many do you count on the Muslim?
Which one is more violent?

Yes Christians have done violence but the acts are not encouraged by Jesus. His message is just the opposite, turn the other cheek put down the sword .
I have seen some verses from the Islamic holy book that direct violent action. Please correct me if I am wrong because the violence I see currently in the Islamic world is turning me off .

Augustine argues : "Christians, as part of a government, need not be ashamed of protecting peace and punishing wickedness when forced to do so by a government." Wickipedia

The key word above is ashamed, Christians he argues should not be ashamed to do the violence of war. Because Christianity teaches violence is a shameful act.
As I admitted above Christians have acted shamefully , but Christianity does not direct them to do so. Violence is not a recommended course of action.

Necessarily, due to political pressure I suppose, Augustine advises Christians in to subject themselves to their political masters . So Christian call to violence is not religiously founded but politically coerced.

The Christian inclination is to not subject themselves .
In his (jus bellum iustum) It is Augustine who perverts Jesus' message admonishing that Christians, "have no choice but to subject themselves to their political masters and seek to ensure that they execute their war-fighting duty as justly as possible." ibid
Christian violence is a perversion of the message, something to be ashamed of , only attempted by Augustine to justify for political reasons I suppose. .

[JP Cusick]

This strong arm of Islam is one of the biggest reasons why Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and in the USA, because Islam is not a religion of wimps.

In the west including in the USA - Christianity has been suppressed and trampled under by many assorted evils with Christians being unable to defend their self or our society from those evils.

In this 21st century we can only see the spirited Muslims fighting back against the wiles of the great Satan.

Any real Christian needs to applaud our sister religion of Islam.

Perhaps those Christians who have been killed or driven from their homes by members of their "sister religion" would not have applauded.

If we judge based on the historical reality, then "those Christians" lived in Muslim lands for hundreds of years and even over a thousand (1,000) years in those same areas - so what has changed?

The answer to what has changed is the USA and western imperialism (including our two world wars) is what changed, and now the killing and driven from their homes of those Christians is being blamed on the religion of Islam instead of rightly blaming the big change of American aggression in those areas.

The Christians (and Jews) lived peacefully under Islamic rule for over a thousand years and yet now that the USA is bombing the entire area - so then why would we not blame America? - while the blame is shifted onto the Muslims.

The religion of Islam has it specifically written into their holy Qur'an to respect the Jews and the Christians, and that has never changed.

The problem today is that the Christians and Jews keep behaving as infidels by embracing the western and American war mongering.

The theory, like that of communism, may be fine but its implementation is not. Women are suppressed in Islamic theocracies. Young girls in the 21st century are flogged or stoned, presumably in the fight against Satan. When people believe that the God they serve opposes infidels, then the violence they do is not to be applauded. This aside, Islam is strenuously fighting Islam - Sunni opposes Shi'ite. Some would say the wiles of Satan are preferable to being blown up in a plane.

All of these claims are just American propaganda, and many of the claims are true because the USA has orchestrated the events in that cruel way - as in getting people to senselessly fight each other.

For those who are religiously bigoted then then American propaganda and lies are taken as true when it is not true.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 53 by dio9]

One would think someone perfect would be able to deliver a message mankind would understand, in a manner that man would obey it.

Just ANOTHER demonstration of the fallacy of the religion.

[dio9]

[Replying to post 53 by dio9]

One would think someone perfect would be able to deliver a message mankind would understand, in a manner that man would obey it.

Just ANOTHER demonstration of the fallacy of the religion.

Its clear to me. Its only unclear to those who willfully will not see.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 56 by dio9]

It is not clear to you.
Or are you better than the multitudes?

If a divine perfect creature made it clear, it would be clear to the genocidal Christians who it was also clear to, or do you think they didn't understand?

Who ascribes better? Christians responsible for entire CONTINENTS worth of genocides (Africa, the America's, Australia) or Muslims who have only been successful a handful of times?

Who UNDERSTANDS better?

[marco]

. I think when we engage in enterprises like this we end up making tendentious assessments.

I accept this caveat and this is why I said: IN THE PRESENT TENSE Islam wins the violence race quite convincingly.

I am not living in the days of the Inquisition nor am I an Aztec or Inca. The religious threat today comes to me principally from Islam, unless I delude myself.

[marco]

For those who are religiously bigoted then then American propaganda and lies are taken as true when it is not true.

Your patriotism does you credit. Tell the parents of the children recently killed in European cities that Islam is a religion of peace, specifically solicitous of Christian and Jewish interests. It depends on which paragraphs of the Koran you've been reading.

What would be the Christian equivalent of the following Koranic advice?

Surah: 8, verse 12: "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them."

Surah 9, verse 5: "Slay the idolaters wherever you find them and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush…."

I believe Christ suggested we LOVE our enemies.

Governments of course make bad decisions. Saddam should never have been murdered, nor Gaddafi, since they kept religious fervour in check. Bad though these two were, the religious demons that have arisen are worse.

[tfvespasianus]

[Replying to post 58 by marco]


We do choose what we fear to some extent. For example, though I do live near a vibrant, multi-cultural area with a great many Muslims I don’t see crazed assassins lurking around every corner though I travel these streets quite often. I have been to Hounslow , had a curry on Brick Lane, and caroused around Newham without giving it a second thought. However, I do live very near the area where a white Nationalist went on a killing spree (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Nathaniel_Smith) and this incident was not all that far from me (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin ... e_shooting). Moreover, hate crimes (as opposed to ‘Muslim terrorism’) hit an 5-year high in the city in which I live (Chicago) based on 2016 data (the most recent data available). These are crimes of violence and intimidation target Jews, Arabs, and Hispanics in what I am guessing are predominantly perpetrated by… a certain demographic that are not in these groups.

Nonetheless, I don’t feel that it’s something inherent in the demographic that causes these incidents.