Why do you not accept Islam?

[DanieltheDragon]

What reasons do any here have to reject Islam?

Is Islam the most accurate representation of god?

[JP Cusick]

Its clear to me. Its only unclear to those who willfully will not see.

I too see the message as clear and not complicated.

What really goes on are rebellious people who refuse to see and who refuse to understand.



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For those who are religiously bigoted then then American propaganda and lies are taken as true when it is not true.

Your patriotism does you credit. Tell the parents of the children recently killed in European cities that Islam is a religion of peace, specifically solicitous of Christian and Jewish interests. It depends on which paragraphs of the Koran you've been reading.

It is true that I reject any form of national Patriotism as debased and shallow.

And it is significant that "Patriotism" comes from the idea that our Country is our Father (Latin Pater) as if our Country were our Father God.

As to the children killed in Europe by the so called "terrorism" then they are very few compared to the thousands or even millions of children murdered by the American led bombing of Muslim people in each of Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Syria, Libya, and more.

I really can not comprehend the notion that our western / American side can bomb and murder constantly while crying about a few Islamic warriors who strike back in defense and retaliation ~ but then my perspective is not distorted by the immoral Patriotism.

What would be the Christian equivalent of the following Koranic advice?

Surah: 8, verse 12: "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them."

Surah 9, verse 5: "Slay the idolaters wherever you find them and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush…."

I believe Christ suggested we LOVE our enemies.

That really boils down to what is the correct meaning of the word "Love"?

When we see a criminal (an unbeliever) murdering innocent people (as does the USA in Syria) then to "Love the enemy" would mean to stop thy enemy.

And I do say that both Judaism and Christianity fails in this by failing to see that the holy Qur'an comes from the same God of the Bible.

Governments of course make bad decisions. Saddam should never have been murdered, nor Gaddafi, since they kept religious fervour in check. Bad though these two were, the religious demons that have arisen are worse.

Yet you (and others) just ignore the blatant reality that the American invasion and American injustice created every bit of the hostility and carnage.

Based on your words above = we did wrong before and yet we must proceed doing more wrong now.

I have to keep hoping that the infidels will fail - and rightly so.

The faith of those Muslims standing up against the evil is very impressive, and that certainly adds fuel to the ever growing attraction of new member for the powerful religion of Islam.

[1213]

The Koran says we should believe what the Koran says about Jesus, ....

Please show where that is said in Quran?

[marco]

We do choose what we fear to some extent.

I respect what you say and the way you say it. Your aphorism here is challenging and on a calm night with a fine wine I would endorse it. We are victims, perhaps, of our geography and our opinions are shaped by our daily excursions and the scenes around us more than the pages of Plato, Proust or Pushkin. We are philosophers in the calm of our study and potential murder victims as we read the news.

Basically I disagree with people expending energy and enthusiasm on a God for God demands service first. Muslims are famously devoted not just to Allah but to the final Prophet against whom nothing untoward may be directed, lest human anger spill into atrocity. It matters little to me that a relatively small section of this vast religious choir sings terror songs. The music may come across more harmoniously in America; here it is strident.

[marco]

The Koran says we should believe what the Koran says about Jesus, ....

Please show where that is said in Quran?

It is hardly necessary to show you that the Koran requires you to believe the Koran.

However, if you want verses that show the Koran has a different view of Jesus from the Christian one, these may help:


2:136 We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them . . .


4:171 O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth.


5:17 In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary.

[DanieltheDragon]

The Koran says we should believe what the Koran says about Jesus, ....

Please show where that is said in Quran?

It is hardly necessary to show you that the Koran requires you to believe the Koran.

However, if you want verses that show the Koran has a different view of Jesus from the Christian one, these may help:


2:136 We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them . . .


4:171 O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth.


5:17 In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary.

J

I would also like to point out that before Islam came to be a lot of the non trinitarian Christians were in the Middle East. So this really does line up rather nice with that regional context.

[marco]

I would also like to point out that before Islam came to be a lot of the non Trinitarian Christians were in the Middle East. So this really does line up rather nice with that regional context.

Good point. If we accept that Muhammad obviously didn't get his info from a divinity in some cave we can more reasonably take it that the Nestorian priest who befriended him as a youth gave him some interesting ideas, especially about Mary not being the Mother of God. Allah didn't write anything new; he dictated what was on offer in various forms among the desert dwellers and got rid of absurdities like three gods being one.

He also helpfully indicated that it was inappropriate to bury baby girls alive, a common practice then. I understand that female infanticide is still a problem in parts of our lovely world.

[William]

What reasons do any here have to reject Islam?

As an adherent to the idea of Panpsychism I reject Islam as I reject all the organised religions (and their subsets).

However the rejection is based on my understanding that all religious organisations are products of political agenda and their ideas of GOD are aligned with those agenda.

Thus the ideas of GOD based upon political agenda are bent to suit that agenda, and falsify the true nature of GOD which is, in relation to this universe, that which permeates the whole universe as a singular self aware consciousness, which also divests itself into the forms of the universe. one of those being our planet, and from that every form which evolved on this planet is the consequence of the creative being which is has and will continue to exist within the planet and use its creative intelligence to create individual forms in which divest within and experience through.

In relation to that I recognize within all organised religions, aspects of the true nature of this Entity, whatever it might be called/named in relation to the different and in many cases, opposing religious belief systems regarding the nature of GOD and attached ideas.

Thus, if I see within any organised religions, anything which I recognize as an aspect of the Earth Entity I do not reject those things. I only reject the overall religion, for reasons already stated, and this rejection extends to the subsets of these organised religions as well, with the same provision to accept those things which I know to being accurate representation of the Earth Entity which the subsets may uphold.

I have yet to come across any organised religion which does not have aspects of the Earth Entity within it.

Is Islam the most accurate representation of god?

No. As an adherent to the idea of Panpsychism, I regard Panpsychism as being the most accurate representation of GOD. Obviously I regard the Earth Entity as being an aspect of GOD (and in relation to us, we are aspects of the Earth Entity and thus also aspects of GOD) GOD being that which is the overall consciousness which permeates every aspect of this universe.

[marco]

As an adherent to the idea of Panpsychism, I regard Panpsychism as being the most accurate representation of GOD.

Theories that make God into a universal blanket of consciousness, with no ill intent or appetite for sacrifice, are harmless and interesting. We can also take existence as an illusion. Problems arise only when we give God a Kalashnikov. All too often religions do.

[marco]

ps: My post was addressed to danielthedragon. I rarely bother to read JP Cusick's posts and was certainly not speaking to him.

Moderator Comment

That's a little unkind, JW. You are entitled to read and ignore what you wish. Telling others publicly about a third person is a tad uncivil, though I am sure you did not intend to be.

Please review the Rules.


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[William]

[Replying to post 68 by marco]

Problems arise only when we give God a Kalashnikov. All too often religions do

Largely because they are political inventions and are in the business of selling weapons for others to fire.

The god they sell the weapons to, are the humans who believe GOD needs a weapon.

Certainly the Abrahamic religions are guilty of this, and none more guilty than the others.