The Solar Eclipse: Coincidence? Or Evidence of Design?

[Volbrigade]

Here in the US, many people are eagerly awaiting the opportunity to observe a total solar eclipse. 14 million people reside in the path of totality. Many more are well within 90% of totality. The entire lower 48 will experience a degree of partiality.

Prompted by an PM exchange with another user, I am reminded of the astronomically small odds that the disc of the moon would fit precisely over the disc of the sun, relative to an observer on earth. This phenomenon allows for observation of the sun’s corona, which is otherwise undetectable to the naked eye. The observation and analysis of the corona led to advancements in the field of spectroscopy by Bunsen, Kirchhoff, Jansen, Huggins, Lockyear, and others. Those advancements, in turn, led to discoveries in astrophysics which have formed our current understanding(s) of the cosmos in which we exist.

Which begs an intriguing question. Is the precise matching of the diameter of the sun and moon, relative to the Earth, just another one of those “happy accidents� — a coincidence, comparable in scale to the probability of select amino acids linking up by chance to form proteins, which in turn link together to form a self-replicating code of protein “letters�, in the precise order necessary to code for a living cell, in Earth’s harsh primordial environment, 5 billion years or so ago? And those codes increasing in information content, through unguided cause-and-effect processes, in order to provide the blueprints for all living things?

A coincidence, like the simultaneous linkages of dimensionless constants — e.g., gravity, strong and weak force, electromagnetism — which provide the appearance of “fine tuning� the parameters of the universe? Of which incremental changes to would produce an environment too unstable for the periodic table, and thus the universe as we know it, to exist?

I’m sure the reader can see where I’m going with this. What if the appearance of “fine tuning� is related to the REALITY of fine tuning, by an Agent possessing mind, intelligence, and will, and which exists outside of the space time continuum which is Its (or “His�) creation?

And what if that Agent adjusted countless variables — i.e., the constants referred to; along with such physical factors as solar size, distance from star, axial tilt, position in a “clear� region of its galaxy, etc. — on one particular, specific planet, in order to generate an environment where intelligent life could not only exist, but have a sense of the scope of the cosmos in which it exists?

And what if the synchronicity displayed in a solar eclipse is not mere coincidence, but a deliberate design? The discoveries made possible by it, which have informed our astrophysical awareness, an indication that this universe is “designed� — by its Creator — “to be discovered�?

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 10 by Volbrigade]

The circumstances necessary to produce an eclipse, featuring the precise relative sizes of two celestial objects, 93 million miles apart, isn't "scientific"? Hmmpff.

Get a flash light set it on a table on facing you. Get a penny. Stretch out your arm with the penny pinched so it is in front of the flash light. Slowly pull the penny closer to your face until it eclipses the flash light. It's not a statistical chance that the penny will eventually eclipse the flashlight it's a certainty. It is an eventuality.

Your thesis is disregarded because the premise is faulty.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 9 by H.sapiens]

Do you ever get tired of labeling everything coincidence? That's the point when one embraces theism at some level.

[H.sapiens]

[Replying to post 9 by H.sapiens]

Do you ever get tired of labeling everything coincidence? That's the point when one embraces theism at some level.

Do you ever tire of pretending that insignificant things are of monstrous import?

[William]

As someone who believes in the idea of GOD as seen through Panpsychism, I think that the universe is unfolding through coinciding incidences as moments which are accompanied by a self aware conscious entity who is present throughout the universe.

In relation to self aware consciousness within an innumerable variety of form the universe offers it to experience through, the studied observation of local phenomena achieved through forms by consciousness naturally connects the dots related to what is called serendipity/synchronicity and naturally assigns self aware creative intelligent agency to that.

The observer can choose to interpret their experience in relation to that, any way they wish, but in my experience, simply calling something 'mindless coincidence' is not an option.

This is because in acknowledging the agent, connection has occurred and the agent provides evidence of its otherwise not-so-easy-to-see, existence.

Within the connection is relationship and within the relationship is the invaluable and deals conclusively with any derisive expressions nay-sayers care to use - these have no effect on the reality of the relationship.

The agency exists and thus is real. See that or not, to seek is to find, to see is to recognize. To chortle at such, is a signature of willful ignorance.

[marco]

[Replying to post 6 by Neatras]

It is like Forrest Gump said, and I don't mean, "life is like a box of chocolates."

Moderator Comment


It is probably wise you kept your comment short but I don't think your cryptic one-liner contributes to the debate.

Please review the Rules.


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[Justin108]

Is the precise matching of the diameter of the sun and moon, relative to the Earth, just another one of those “happy accidents� — a coincidence

It's not just a coincidence. It's something that was bound to happen eventually. The fact that the moon constantly revolves around the earth and the earth in turn revolves around the sun suggest that, eventually, this perfect alignment would occur. Given enough time, unlikely occurrences become likely occurrences. What are the odds that where you stand in a thunderstorm happens to be the precise spot where lightning strikes? Very very slim. Regardless, people still get hit by lightning sometimes. If the sun aligning with the moon is proof of God, then people getting hit by lightning is proof of Thor.

[Volbrigade]

Is the precise matching of the diameter of the sun and moon, relative to the Earth, just another one of those “happy accidents� — a coincidence

It's not just a coincidence. It's something that was bound to happen eventually. The fact that the moon constantly revolves around the earth and the earth in turn revolves around the sun suggest that, eventually, this perfect alignment would occur. Given enough time, unlikely occurrences become likely occurrences. What are the odds that where you stand in a thunderstorm happens to be the precise spot where lightning strikes? Very very slim. Regardless, people still get hit by lightning sometimes. If the sun aligning with the moon is proof of God, then people getting hit by lightning is proof of Thor.

DtheD -- I think your point inadvertently speaks to Design. God "pulled" -- or "put" -- the Moon in just the right location to perfectly fit over the Sun. Any further away, and all eclipses would be annular; too close, and we could not see the corona.

Which addresses your point, Justin. It's not just the alignment that fills those capable of wonder with that quality: it is the match of Sun and Moon. I mean, pennies and flashlights and arm's length are one thing. We're taking dimeters of 865K (Sun), 2.2K (Moon), at a distance of 93 million miles. And yet the two appear to be a matched set, for the benefit of the only intelligent life in the universe capable of observing the phenomenon.

Pretty remarkable.

Almost as remarkable is the listless attitude of the non-theist, in maintaining an unimpressed "so what?" posture.

By the way -- as an earlier poster showed, in a remarkable photo taken from the Mars rover, celestial objects are aligning all the time. Neat -- but no big deal. Most of the objects in the Solar System are on roughly the same plane, which is in alignment with the Sun's equator. But notice the picture provided: an irregular dot (Phobos) in the midst of the Sun's disc.

Similarly, the Earth and Moon don't correspond in size during a lunar eclipse, as the Moon and Sun do.

No -- to deny, or downplay, the amazing quality of the solar eclipse is an example of an impoverished sense of awe at God's creation. IMO.

[H.sapiens]

Is the precise matching of the diameter of the sun and moon, relative to the Earth, just another one of those “happy accidents� — a coincidence

It's not just a coincidence. It's something that was bound to happen eventually. The fact that the moon constantly revolves around the earth and the earth in turn revolves around the sun suggest that, eventually, this perfect alignment would occur. Given enough time, unlikely occurrences become likely occurrences. What are the odds that where you stand in a thunderstorm happens to be the precise spot where lightning strikes? Very very slim. Regardless, people still get hit by lightning sometimes. If the sun aligning with the moon is proof of God, then people getting hit by lightning is proof of Thor.

DtheD -- I think your point inadvertently speaks to Design. God "pulled" -- or "put" -- the Moon in just the right location to perfectly fit over the Sun. Any further away, and all eclipses would be annular; too close, and we could not see the corona.

Which addresses your point, Justin. It's not just the alignment that fills those capable of wonder with that quality: it is the match of Sun and Moon. I mean, pennies and flashlights and arm's length are one thing. We're taking dimeters of 865K (Sun), 2.2K (Moon), at a distance of 93 million miles. And yet the two appear to be a matched set, for the benefit of the only intelligent life in the universe capable of observing the phenomenon.

Pretty remarkable.

Almost as remarkable is the listless attitude of the non-theist, in maintaining an unimpressed "so what?" posture.

By the way -- as an earlier poster showed, in a remarkable photo taken from the Mars rover, celestial objects are aligning all the time. Neat -- but no big deal. Most of the objects in the Solar System are on roughly the same plane, which is in alignment with the Sun's equator. But notice the picture provided: an irregular dot (Phobos) in the midst of the Sun's disc.

Similarly, the Earth and Moon don't correspond in size during a lunar eclipse, as the Moon and Sun do.

No -- to deny, or downplay, the amazing quality of the solar eclipse is an example of an impoverished sense of awe at God's creation. IMO.

You fail to grasp the reality that the moon's period and distance from earth, as well as the earth's distance from the sun are not constants.

[Volbrigade]

Is the precise matching of the diameter of the sun and moon, relative to the Earth, just another one of those “happy accidents� — a coincidence

It's not just a coincidence. It's something that was bound to happen eventually. The fact that the moon constantly revolves around the earth and the earth in turn revolves around the sun suggest that, eventually, this perfect alignment would occur. Given enough time, unlikely occurrences become likely occurrences. What are the odds that where you stand in a thunderstorm happens to be the precise spot where lightning strikes? Very very slim. Regardless, people still get hit by lightning sometimes. If the sun aligning with the moon is proof of God, then people getting hit by lightning is proof of Thor.

DtheD -- I think your point inadvertently speaks to Design. God "pulled" -- or "put" -- the Moon in just the right location to perfectly fit over the Sun. Any further away, and all eclipses would be annular; too close, and we could not see the corona.

Which addresses your point, Justin. It's not just the alignment that fills those capable of wonder with that quality: it is the match of Sun and Moon. I mean, pennies and flashlights and arm's length are one thing. We're taking dimeters of 865K (Sun), 2.2K (Moon), at a distance of 93 million miles. And yet the two appear to be a matched set, for the benefit of the only intelligent life in the universe capable of observing the phenomenon.

Pretty remarkable.

Almost as remarkable is the listless attitude of the non-theist, in maintaining an unimpressed "so what?" posture.

By the way -- as an earlier poster showed, in a remarkable photo taken from the Mars rover, celestial objects are aligning all the time. Neat -- but no big deal. Most of the objects in the Solar System are on roughly the same plane, which is in alignment with the Sun's equator. But notice the picture provided: an irregular dot (Phobos) in the midst of the Sun's disc.

Similarly, the Earth and Moon don't correspond in size during a lunar eclipse, as the Moon and Sun do.

No -- to deny, or downplay, the amazing quality of the solar eclipse is an example of an impoverished sense of awe at God's creation. IMO.

You fail to grasp the reality that the moon's period and distance from earth, as well as the earth's distance from the sun are not constants.

You fail to grasp that that has no relevance to the point.

[H.sapiens]

Is the precise matching of the diameter of the sun and moon, relative to the Earth, just another one of those “happy accidents� — a coincidence

It's not just a coincidence. It's something that was bound to happen eventually. The fact that the moon constantly revolves around the earth and the earth in turn revolves around the sun suggest that, eventually, this perfect alignment would occur. Given enough time, unlikely occurrences become likely occurrences. What are the odds that where you stand in a thunderstorm happens to be the precise spot where lightning strikes? Very very slim. Regardless, people still get hit by lightning sometimes. If the sun aligning with the moon is proof of God, then people getting hit by lightning is proof of Thor.

DtheD -- I think your point inadvertently speaks to Design. God "pulled" -- or "put" -- the Moon in just the right location to perfectly fit over the Sun. Any further away, and all eclipses would be annular; too close, and we could not see the corona.

Which addresses your point, Justin. It's not just the alignment that fills those capable of wonder with that quality: it is the match of Sun and Moon. I mean, pennies and flashlights and arm's length are one thing. We're taking dimeters of 865K (Sun), 2.2K (Moon), at a distance of 93 million miles. And yet the two appear to be a matched set, for the benefit of the only intelligent life in the universe capable of observing the phenomenon.

Pretty remarkable.

Almost as remarkable is the listless attitude of the non-theist, in maintaining an unimpressed "so what?" posture.

By the way -- as an earlier poster showed, in a remarkable photo taken from the Mars rover, celestial objects are aligning all the time. Neat -- but no big deal. Most of the objects in the Solar System are on roughly the same plane, which is in alignment with the Sun's equator. But notice the picture provided: an irregular dot (Phobos) in the midst of the Sun's disc.

Similarly, the Earth and Moon don't correspond in size during a lunar eclipse, as the Moon and Sun do.

No -- to deny, or downplay, the amazing quality of the solar eclipse is an example of an impoverished sense of awe at God's creation. IMO.

You fail to grasp the reality that the moon's period and distance from earth, as well as the earth's distance from the sun are not constants.

You fail to grasp that that has no relevance to the point.

So ... are you prepared to argue that not only are there sacred sizes but there are also sacred distances and sacred times and sacred points in time? What you illustrate was not true in the past and will not be true in the future, what about annular eclipses that occur when the Moon is too far away to completely cover the Sun's disk. Also, the moon is off the earth's solar plane so most new moons are wasted, very few cast a shadow on the earth.