The Solar Eclipse: Coincidence? Or Evidence of Design?

[Volbrigade]

Here in the US, many people are eagerly awaiting the opportunity to observe a total solar eclipse. 14 million people reside in the path of totality. Many more are well within 90% of totality. The entire lower 48 will experience a degree of partiality.

Prompted by an PM exchange with another user, I am reminded of the astronomically small odds that the disc of the moon would fit precisely over the disc of the sun, relative to an observer on earth. This phenomenon allows for observation of the sun’s corona, which is otherwise undetectable to the naked eye. The observation and analysis of the corona led to advancements in the field of spectroscopy by Bunsen, Kirchhoff, Jansen, Huggins, Lockyear, and others. Those advancements, in turn, led to discoveries in astrophysics which have formed our current understanding(s) of the cosmos in which we exist.

Which begs an intriguing question. Is the precise matching of the diameter of the sun and moon, relative to the Earth, just another one of those “happy accidents� — a coincidence, comparable in scale to the probability of select amino acids linking up by chance to form proteins, which in turn link together to form a self-replicating code of protein “letters�, in the precise order necessary to code for a living cell, in Earth’s harsh primordial environment, 5 billion years or so ago? And those codes increasing in information content, through unguided cause-and-effect processes, in order to provide the blueprints for all living things?

A coincidence, like the simultaneous linkages of dimensionless constants — e.g., gravity, strong and weak force, electromagnetism — which provide the appearance of “fine tuning� the parameters of the universe? Of which incremental changes to would produce an environment too unstable for the periodic table, and thus the universe as we know it, to exist?

I’m sure the reader can see where I’m going with this. What if the appearance of “fine tuning� is related to the REALITY of fine tuning, by an Agent possessing mind, intelligence, and will, and which exists outside of the space time continuum which is Its (or “His�) creation?

And what if that Agent adjusted countless variables — i.e., the constants referred to; along with such physical factors as solar size, distance from star, axial tilt, position in a “clear� region of its galaxy, etc. — on one particular, specific planet, in order to generate an environment where intelligent life could not only exist, but have a sense of the scope of the cosmos in which it exists?

And what if the synchronicity displayed in a solar eclipse is not mere coincidence, but a deliberate design? The discoveries made possible by it, which have informed our astrophysical awareness, an indication that this universe is “designed� — by its Creator — “to be discovered�?

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to post 30 by Volbrigade]

the truly remarkable thing is that there is someone to observe the phenomenon!

That seems so blatantly, self-evidently obvious, that it doesn't bear mentioning.

How is your OP eclipse scenario at all different from the appearance of a rainbow in terms of a natural phenomenon that is impressive because humans are around to view it? Or pick any other celestial or terrestrial observable that is equally impressive (nebulas, waterfalls, tornados, volcanic eruptions, etc.). There were certainly eclipses long before any humans were around to observe them, or creatures with eyes of any kind (and at that time, since the moon was closer to the earth, a total solar eclipse would have been even more impressive), and there will be eclipses after humans are no longer around. What does the fact that humans are around to see the eclipse have to do with its occurrence?

Are you really suggesting that an eclipse like this occurs because a god wanted to entertain humans and decided this was a neat way to do it? If so, that is so blatantly, self-evidently an enormous stretch of the imagination that it is hard to take it seriously. An even more outlandish idea would be to think that eclipses didn't occur before or after human occupation of this planet because they are only for the entertainment of humans, and so this god would not have allowed them to happen because no one was around to see them. Is that also your position?

[Kenisaw]

As remarkable as it is that God made the moon and the sun ("for signs and seasons"), and put them in space at precisely the right distance so that the former would occlude the latter as if they were cut from the same die --

Except, of course, they aren't in space at precisely the right distance, all the time, which is why some eclipses aren't total eclipses. They also aren't technically the exact same size for that matter during total eclipses. Sometimes the moon is a little bigger than the Sun. But don't let the facts get in the way of your baseless claims about random stuff happening in the universe.

I just think it's cool that your god created eclipses, as a taunt to all the blind folks who your god loves unconditionally but took their sight away because of what some woman ate off a tree way back when...

And yet what I get from the vaguely materialist secular Whateverist, in this the third or fourth post-Christian generation, is a yawing "so what?"

To me, that is indicative of an impoverished worldview,where the sense of wonder has been evacuated.

For those who are filled with the Spirit of God, though -- "the wonder never ends."

IMO, and all that...

Judging from all the festivities and events planned in my city (St Louis) there is plenty of wonder to go around. People just don't meed mythical beings to understand why it's happening anymore...

[Justin108]

By the way -- as an earlier poster showed, in a remarkable photo taken from the Mars rover, celestial objects are aligning all the time.

The fact that there are billions of celestial objects out there means some of them will inevitably align.

LOL.

And do those observers have cameras? Internet?

Ok you're clearly not interested in a serious discussion. I'm not going to waste my time.

My OP is an indication of my willingness to have a "serious discussion".

"LOL", an emoji and a ridiculous comment about cameras and internet suggests otherwise.

Try concentrating a little bit. You say that celestial objects will align...

but with what?

With each other... do you know what "align" means?

align
əˈlʌɪn/Submit
verb
1.
place or arrange (things) in a straight line.

So if three or so stars, planets, a moon, whichever were to form a straight line... it means they align.



Notice all the stars that don't align. It is statistically probable that, given the existence of billions of stars, that at least some of them will align. It doesn't take a miracle. It doesn't take design.

As for the sun, moon and earth... because of the fact that the moon is constantly moving around the earth, it is inevitable that every now and then, the moon will be in front of the sun, forming a straight line. This is not rocket science.

If there were a solar system in our galaxy similar to ours -- nine planets (or eight, and a "planetoid") and they all lined up so you could draw a theoretical line from the star, though all of its orbiting planets, simultaneously --

if there were no one there to observe it, then what of it?

They would still align... you don't need to look at something for it to occur. What difference does it make if we see it or not?

Have you and HS (and others) so missed the point in that regard?

Apparently. What is your point? Is it somehow more remarkable if something aligns and people are there to see it happening?

As remarkable as it is that God made the moon and the sun ("for signs and seasons"), and put them in space at precisely the right distance so that the former would occlude the latter as if they were cut from the same die --

the truly remarkable thing is that there is someone to observe the phenomenon!

That seems so blatantly, self-evidently obvious, that it doesn't bear mentioning.

That seems so blatantly, self-evidently irrelevant, that it doesn't bear mentioning.

To me, that is indicative of an impoverished worldview,where the sense of wonder has been evacuated.

To me, your perspective is indicative of gullibility and flawed reasoning.

For those who are filled with the Spirit of God, though -- "the wonder never ends."

Your "spirit of god" argument is utterly useless in Science and Religion. I'd recommend Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma if you want that defense to be taken remotely seriously.

[Bust Nak]

To me, that is indicative of an impoverished worldview,where the sense of wonder has been evacuated.

For those who are filled with the Spirit of God, though -- "the wonder never ends."

Tell me, which one is more awe inspiring, a) accidentally tripping over pots of paint and ending up with a piece of art through serendipity; b) Or someone painting the same thing deliberately.

a) gets a bigger "wow" from me than b). Introducing a god diminishes the wonder of the cosmos rather than enhance it.

[Monta]

To me, that is indicative of an impoverished worldview,where the sense of wonder has been evacuated.

For those who are filled with the Spirit of God, though -- "the wonder never ends."

Tell me, which one is more awe inspiring, a) accidentally tripping over pots of paint and ending up with a piece of art through serendipity; b) Or someone painting the same thing deliberately.

a) gets a bigger "wow" from me than b). Introducing a god diminishes the wonder of the cosmos rather than enhance it.

We are all different but a pot of paint to arouse sense of wonder

[Bust Nak]

[Replying to post 35 by Monta]

If you see mere spilled paint pots, where as I see art, who then can be said to have "a impoverished worldview, where the sense of wonder has been evacuated?"

[H.sapiens]

[Replying to post 30 by Volbrigade]
Missing the point? No! Understanding that there is no point other than your own invention, absolutely!

[Volbrigade]

[Replying to post 31 by DrNoGods]

Let's see here...

DNG:

How is your OP eclipse scenario at all different from the appearance of a rainbow in terms of a natural phenomenon that is impressive because humans are around to view it?

Well... rainbows are indeed impressive, wonderful, beautiful things. They are also a sign, given by God. As is the eclipse. The difference is that while I can create a miniature rainbow with a garden hose, the eclipse... well. "Day into night". Suddenly. I've never seen a total; am debating whether to drive a few hours to experience it. Many who have say it is... unlike anything else. The ancients trembled over them. All because God made the diameter of the Sun 400 times greater than the diameter of the Moon. And then place it 400 times further away.

Or pick any other celestial or terrestrial observable that is equally impressive (nebulas, waterfalls, tornados, volcanic eruptions, etc.).

Yes. I believe that the proper attitude towards all of those things -- you left out hurricanes -- is wonder. And awe. Which is analogous with fear, which is what we should feel toward the limitless power of God.

There were certainly eclipses long before any humans were around to observe them, or creatures with eyes of any kind...

Huh. Sure. I don't want to veer into a debate on origins and history. There are those in abundance on this site already. You are reflecting the religious belief that microbes transformed into men; somehow accumulating the information to assemble eyes along the way. It is the prevailing religious belief among the denizens of this board, its impossibility (somewhat attenuated by the addition of fictitious "great goobley-gobs of time") notwithstanding. I won't challenge it here. I'll only point out the fact that IF eclipses occurred when there was no intelligent life to register it, it doesn't change the fact that there is now.

Kenisaw:

I just think it's cool that your god created eclipses, as a taunt to all the blind folks who your god loves unconditionally but took their sight away because of what some woman ate off a tree way back when...

Oh, it's WAY worse than that, my friend. Many won't get a chance to see the eclipse -- or any eclipse, or anything else -- because they're going to be so damned DEAD. Many will die between your reading this, and the onset of totality on Monday. And many of THOSE will die in their trespasses, because of their SPIRITUAL blindness -- which is way worse than physical blindness.

Death is the wages of sin. Every time you go to a funeral, it is a reminder of that stark fact. And, just as the eclipse is a reminder of God's sovereignty and power and glory and design, death should be a constant reminder of our own sinful condition. And also that Christ has defeated death. In Him, we can be resurrected into eternal life, to share in His eternal mode of existence and power and glory. "He did not to make bad men good; but to bring dead men to life."

Justin:

Volbrigade wrote:

If there were a solar system in our galaxy similar to ours -- nine planets (or eight, and a "planetoid") and they all lined up so you could draw a theoretical line from the star, though all of its orbiting planets, simultaneously --

if there were no one there to observe it, then what of it?

They would still align... you don't need to look at something for it to occur. What difference does it make if we see it or not?

I'm having a little trouble with that one. First of all -- Orion's belt. Do you happen to notice the perspective from which those stars align?

You see -- one planet with intelligent life (that we know of) in all the cosmos.

And it happens to be the only planet that we know of where a solar eclipse is possible, relative to the intelligent observer. Because, again, of the multiples of 400 mentioned.

And your response is a shrug.

I just don't know what to do with that. So I won't do anything.

I guess I could mention that 400 happens to be the gematrimetric value of the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet (Tav), which means "truth". Or that if you google "surface temperature of the Sun, kelvin" you will get 5778 degrees. And 5778 just happens to be the next year on the Jewish calendar, beginning one lunar month after the eclipse.

But I won't. It would no doubt receive a shrug from you, as well.

BN:

Tell me, which one is more awe inspiring, a) accidentally tripping over pots of paint and ending up with a piece of art through serendipity; b) Or someone painting the same thing deliberately.

a) gets a bigger "wow" from me than b). Introducing a god diminishes the wonder of the cosmos rather than enhance it.

LOL. To each his own, I guess. I admit, I'd be pretty impressed if a monkey banging on a laptop keyboard produced "War and Peace".

But I would say God had a hand in it. Like Balaam's ass?

HS:

nothing.

[Bust Nak]

LOL. To each his own, I guess. I admit, I'd be pretty impressed if a monkey banging on a laptop keyboard produced "War and Peace".

More impressed than Leo Tolstoy writing it, right?

[Neatras]

I guess I could mention that 400 happens to be the gematrimetric value of the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet (Tav), which means "truth". Or that if you google "surface temperature of the Sun, kelvin" you will get 5778 degrees. And 5778 just happens to be the next year on the Jewish calendar, beginning one lunar month after the eclipse.

Wait... so what about the 2019+ solar eclipses, then? It won't be the 5778th Jewish year anymore then. Why is the next one so special? Isn't one property of measuring time the fact that it sequentially increments? And reaching an arbitrary number is literally just a matter of time?

Look man, I used to get a giggle when the clock struck 12:34, because I was a dork.

I'm just really confused, dude. You're pulling a Harold Camping. The dude tried to say the world would end because a bunch of numbers lined up. But since time is going to keep going forward, it will literally hit every conceivable "wacky number" you can come up with, whether it's in seconds, hours, years, etc. What is it about specific numbers that stands out? The fact that a solar eclipse will happen one month before a number on a calendar matches the freaking surface temperature of the sun in Kelvin? I suppose in the year 7,000 CE, an earthquake will happen, and that will be of significant importance.

This is really just you, fantasizing about your god leaving all kinds of "God clues" in the cosmos that only those inclined to arbitrarily draw points connecting random values with arbitrary units of measurement could possibly see as anything other than a result of literally waiting until some number increments to the point it equals some other number.

This is not scientific. You are not in the right sub-forum to discuss your apophenia.