The book of genesis uninspired by god

[evilsorcerer1]

I've been studying genesis and I'd like to discuss what it means. First, the word meanings. Also I doubt any of the people are real. Men and women are just symbolic. Adam (Air, dirt, air, man) represents at first dirt of the earth. Eden is heaven. The water that flows from Eden is both natural (fallen) and spiritual (chosen). I don't believe the divinity of the book, only stating some of the symbolism. When Adam knew Eve (Havilah or cycle which represents season/s) the water flowed and the garden grew, as did man. The description is part of how the world was created. Adam was mankind, not just man, although I don't know if the author thought that. The serpent (a snake has 200-400 ribs) represents the misconception that there was only one man and woman. The rib taken from Adam was possibly used for the chosen elect. That would be 1/12 of humanity if which I think it was much less, maybe 1/480. Man and woman were thrown out of the garden and a flaming sword was placed around it to keep them out which I think represented the sun (always circling). Man's first attempt to explain the universe. When he was describing the location it may have been the four rivers represented the Euphrates (פרת) and Hiddekel (חדקל) and two oceans. The names of the rivers have similar names while Gichon and Pishon (פישון, גיחון) also are very similar. Gichon surrounds the land of Cush which may represent Africa (c for Cush). But it could have also been an place like heaven if gold represents the sun, onyx stone represents the moon and bdellium represents the stars. Havilah (Hebrew: חֲוִילָה‎‎ "Circular") also spelled Evilas or Evilath could be Eve or evening. So if you want to elaborate on your theories about genesis please do.

[JP Cusick]

I've been studying genesis and I'd like to discuss what it means. First, the word meanings. Also I doubt any of the people are real. Men and women are just symbolic. Adam (Air, dirt, air, man) represents at first dirt of the earth. Eden is heaven. The water that flows from Eden is both natural (fallen) and spiritual (chosen). I don't believe the divinity of the book, only stating some of the symbolism. When Adam knew Eve (Havilah or cycle which represents season/s) the water flowed and the garden grew, as did man. The description is part of how the world was created. Adam was mankind, not just man, although I don't know if the author thought that. The serpent (a snake has 200-400 ribs) represents the misconception that there was only one man and woman. The rib taken from Adam was possibly used for the chosen elect. That would be 1/12 of humanity if which I think it was much less, maybe 1/480. Man and woman were thrown out of the garden and a flaming sword was placed around it to keep them out which I think represented the sun (always circling). Man's first attempt to explain the universe. When he was describing the location it may have been the four rivers represented the Euphrates (פרת) and Hiddekel (חדקל) and two oceans. The names of the rivers have similar names while Gichon and Pishon (פישון, גיחון) also are very similar. Gichon surrounds the land of Cush which may represent Africa (c for Cush). But it could have also been an place like heaven if gold represents the sun, onyx stone represents the moon and bdellium represents the stars. Havilah (Hebrew: חֲוִילָה‎‎ "Circular") also spelled Evilas or Evilath could be Eve or evening. So if you want to elaborate on your theories about genesis please do.

I agree that the book of Genesis is full of symbols and metaphors, but there are two (2) aspects of Genesis which otherwise dominate.

1) The prophesy in Genesis is outstanding, one example HERE, and there are more.

2) Genesis telling about the poisoned knowledge of "good and bad" is so profound and still relevant today and that poison could not be known without this revelation.

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On a separate matter - I loved your hilarious response about the tower of Babel to the person complaining about "paragraphs" ~ that was really brilliant of you.

[JP Cusick]

I imagine that it would be a good exercise for theology students to make sense of a symbolic interpretation of Genesis. It does seem absurd that the Creator God, having expanded the Universe, would go into open surgery to produce Eve.

Taking the tale literally requires a vast amount of faith.

Taking the rib from Adam to create Eve has a fascinating twist to it because it says that God put Adam to sleep which mean "general anesthesia" long before there ever was such a concept, along with closing the flesh which again was way before the time of such medical procedures:

Genesis 2:
21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
===

It is quite hard to view the particulars of such an operation as being some chance of wording in such details.

This taken literally is stunning for its medical surgery details.

[marco]

Taking the rib from Adam to create Eve has a fascinating twist to it because it says that God put Adam to sleep

If we want to relate God's operation to modern techniques we can readily discover that the rib is the ideal bone for God to choose. The rib goes on making red marrow for blood cells in adults. In operations today ribs are often taken when bone grafts are required. So it was clever of God to choose that bone.

Muslim clerics have trawled through the Koran and have discovered surprising medical information that has only been known in modern times. Or so it seems.

Does this indicate that Bible and Koran are telling us something? However, we can read too much into simple facts. I've read the Bible Code that tells of Kennedy's assassination if we pick the right sequence of letters.

Desire for something to be true can make it true. Man is such a clever animal, is he not?

[evilsorcerer1]

Question; How does this opinion allow for the growth of the Abrahamic religions? It suggests all is lies....
Answer; I don't know exactly what the Abrahamic religion is but I think realizing that religion and the world is lies might help myself.
To the comment about my idea that letters and words have meaning; true its possible for all letters to mean anything, but I was wondering if anyone knew anything more on the subject. Also, let's look at some 1st letters of words that've been around for a long time. fire, air, dirt, heat, planet, sun, water, year, age, tree, oxygen, fish. Air, year, age, oxygen all describe a non solid thing or idea. Heat and water have mostly vowel with a tiny amount of consonant sound in them while fire, dirt, planet, sun, tree, fish have quite solid sounds. Also the point would be the sounds of the words, because man could probably speak in the beginning but not write. And names might be different because they might be more likely assigned by people. So Adam doesn't start with a consonant because it was a name assigned by someone.

[evilsorcerer1]

The rib was a false revelation of the facts of history. As was most of the book and books throughout history. I have a theory that the Bible, maybe the Koran and any other books based on a 'God' giving them some great victory began around the time the last real chosen child of God existed. I think the authors maybe felt a difference in the world with their deaths and thought God had somehow slain their enemies. I think the revelation about Sodom and Gomorrah may have happened but in reality it was a volcano and happened after children of God died and was done to preserve their bodies from being defiled by us. Because if we are flesh then it may have been necessary if it wasn't the type of substance used to create them but the specific substance. For example, if there was nothing in the universe and a spirit we call God created, how did he do it? Did he create something from nothing? If a all powerful has been here forever was there ever nothing but a spirit in existence? Because it would have to have created something from nothing. So let's say an all powerful spirit that has always existed and one day decided to create something. Maybe he created some stuff and then destroyed it all and started over. But this time he decided to create a living being with a choice. But was the whole universe created at once, like some great spirit moving its 'spiritual' hands and many types of dust and fire and water and air began to swirl and form the universe. So everything was formed and (in my opinion) a lot of human beings were created. Now for something to live its not necessary to have a soul, at least if you consider plant and animal life. They just don't have a conscience and an ability to choose God. But I suppose each person could have been created by a combination of different substances without requiring that the specific matter they were be required to resurrect them. In other words, I'm guessing God can't rebuild the chosen from the same substance they existed with on earth only use some from a planet/s in outer space. Same goes for the accursed. If we have to live to feel pain then we will have to be constructed of something that can exist in fire or something. Then when the last person has been the Earth and universe could be destroyed and rebuilt from nothing.
Old Testament Judaism; Belief in a man as God was blasphemy
New Testament Christianity; Belief in the Universe as God is blasphemy
My conclusion; all have blasphemed that claim anything other than God is a spirit. Basically anything a person puts their faith in besides the spirit God is blasphemy and that would be anything physical. Also, if God knew who would choose what and chosen one could touch anything defiled, he could have caused only one people to be born because all the rest would be cursed by touching cursed people. So their existence would have to have ended before a lot of people would contaminate and pollute the world. Maybe the world was constrained from really reproducing until the chosen had died. That's another reason why I think that maybe the children of God's time on earth ended around Abraham's time because he had a lot of sons. Maybe a restraint was taken off of him and other people and they could procreate more often. Adam (mankind, creation,dirt) 130 years+800 years+Terah(terrain, dirt)=1000 years; if there were more than one people ( 1 rib =1/24 total or 12 peoples) created at creation that'd have been a certain numbers for years lifespan for the world.

[JP Cusick]

If we want to relate God's operation to modern techniques we can readily discover that the rib is the ideal bone for God to choose. The rib goes on making red marrow for blood cells in adults. In operations today ribs are often taken when bone grafts are required. So it was clever of God to choose that bone.

Muslim clerics have trawled through the Koran and have discovered surprising medical information that has only been known in modern times. Or so it seems.

Does this indicate that Bible and Koran are telling us something? However, we can read too much into simple facts. I've read the Bible Code that tells of Kennedy's assassination if we pick the right sequence of letters.

Desire for something to be true can make it true. Man is such a clever animal, is he not?

This is an example where you have real and interesting info (pearls) and then you trample it under your feet, and you turn around to attack again.

The Bible Code that tells of Kennedy's assassination has no connection and has nothing to do with the info, and yet you magically connect it in order to trample the pearls under your feet.

Thus the proverb is true about the similarity of a dog, Proverbs 26:11

[marco]

The Bible Code that tells of Kennedy's assassination has no connection and has nothing to do with the info, and yet you magically connect it in order to trample the pearls under your feet.

Its relevance, which you fail to see, is that it is an example of reading too much into the Bible and attributing to it gems that are not there. I'm not sure what trampling on pearls would achieve.

Thus the proverb is true about the similarity of a dog,

Is it? Because someone disagrees with your point of view is hardly licence for you to remind us that a dog returns to its own vomit. Genesis may be filled with pearls for you; others regard it as nonsense. Describing one's own observations as "pearls" sadly does not make them so.

[JP Cusick]

The Bible Code that tells of Kennedy's assassination has no connection and has nothing to do with the info, and yet you magically connect it in order to trample the pearls under your feet.

Its relevance, which you fail to see, is that it is an example of reading too much into the Bible and attributing to it gems that are not there. I'm not sure what trampling on pearls would achieve.

To explain:

There is a long standing rule that follows a principle in mathematics which goes like this:

1 + 1 = 2
a + b = c

But not as this:

a + b = ridiculous assertion

As you did with this:
Medical operation in Genesis plus medical info in the Qur'an does not equal = the Kennedy assassination.

There is no connection and no relevance to that equation, which is like a toothless dog who is all bark but no bite.

[marco]

There is a long standing rule that follows a principle in mathematics which goes like this:

1 + 1 = 2
a + b = c

I am a mathematician. What you say here is incomprehensible as far as mathematics goes.

Medical operation in Genesis plus medical info in the Qur'an does not equal = the Kennedy assassination.

There is no connection and no relevance to that equation, which is like a toothless dog who is all bark but no bite.

I can hardly believe I am in this conversation. There is no "equation". The relevance, as I ineffectively tried to explain, is that people have extracted information from the Bible by a variety of imaginative processes. Thus, reading advanced technology into Genesis or taking a series of letters and spelling out the assassination of Kennedy are similar in that they find what is not there. One can take Virgil's Aeneid and find predictions in it if one chooses. People find what they want to find and Genesis here is being magnified to the status of amazing prophecy instead of just being regarded as a simplistic tale of God making man from clay.

[McCulloch]

[Replying to post 19 by marco]

JP Cusick is not referring to secular mathematics. Secular mathematics, like secular science, is a harmful influence to be shunned.