Your cake and eating it too; Christian dishonesty.

[Iseerce]

I come across this theme of wanting to have your cake and eat it too, when talking to Christians, and hearing what Apologists have to say, how they spin and tap-dance, all too often. And, though there are many examples, the idea to examine, is that many Christians want to point to their Bible as divinely inspired by God, and so, must ignore that which is unpleasant in order to construct a fluid narrative.

Short-hand examples of this might look like, something as general as Morality, and as specific as Slavery.

The idea that, even many Christians are willing to accept that there are simply things in the Bible that they have no explanation for, barbaric and immoral things, but that they will trust the god of the bible, regardless.

It troubles me deeply, how otherwise concerned, moral people have to give up their own humanity in order to support their Religion.
And yes, it irritates me that, often, these are the people who assume the moral high-ground.

[1213]

...Short-hand examples of this might look like, something as general as Morality, and as specific as Slavery. ...

That is interesting topic. Jews had a right to buy slaves, not right to sell own people. If other nations are so evil that they are willing to sell their people, isn’t it better for those people to be sold to Jews?

[Clownboat]

Jews had a right to buy slaves...

Who or what gave this right to Jews to buy other humans as slaves?

If other nations are so evil that they are willing to sell their people, isn’t it better for those people to be sold to Jews?

This is like comparing how compassionate one serial killer is to anther because he kills in a more humane way.

Owning humans as property is evil IMO.
You can't have your cake and eat it too no matter how you spin and tap dance.

[JP Cusick]

Jews had a right to buy slaves...

Who or what gave this right to Jews to buy other humans as slaves?

The Bible concept for "slaves" which came from God only means a "servant" just as in an employee.

The Jewish people misunderstood the concept, and that mistake has backfired onto the Jewish people forever after.

The American system of Capitalism is more correctly using the concept of people being servants and as employees.

Genesis 3:
17 And unto Adam he said, ... : cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
--

The modern concept of slavery (Slavic) is not the same as being a servant as told by God.

In God's concept then any person can repent of the evil and turn their life around, and each person can stop our self from the curse, and the right way is wide open to any person or people if they would only choose right.

One would figure that the modern system of Capitalism which is based on extreme greed and exploitation would be enough to turn people away from this kind of "slavery" but apparently that just does not happen.

[Bust Nak]

The Bible concept for "slaves" which came from God only means a "servant" just as in an employee...

What employer would be allowed to beat an employee, as long as no lasting damage is done; determine who a female employee marries; separate a wife from an employee at the termination of the employment; keep the children of employee as further employee; forward the employment to another employer without input from the employee?

The modern concept of slavery (Slavic) is not the same as being a servant as told by God.

Maybe, but the Biblical version is far closer to modern concept of slavery than the modern concept of employee.

One would figure that the modern system of Capitalism which is based on extreme greed and exploitation would be enough to turn people away from this kind of "slavery" but apparently that just does not happen.

It's a easy choice for modern employment over Biblical slavery.

[Divine Insight]

What employer would be allowed to beat an employee,

Exactly.

This isn't just a case of Christians wanting to have their cake and eat it too, but it's also an example of complete denial of what is actually written in the Bible.

And concerning the "Christian dishonesty" suggested by the OP, it's not that Christians are being knowingly dishonest with other people in their apologetic arguments, but is actually going on is that they are being dishonest with themselves. Apparently without in realizing it.

To claim that the slaves mentioned in the Bible were mere "employees" is absolute nonsense. There's no way you would be permitted (or even required) to beat an employee to within an inch of their life. And this is what the Bible allows for. As long as the slave doesn't die within three days after the beating all is well. I guess if they die on the fourth day it's ok.

[Clownboat]

Jews had a right to buy slaves...

Who or what gave this right to Jews to buy other humans as slaves?

The Bible concept for "slaves" which came from God only means a "servant" just as in an employee.

Exodus 21:20-21New International Version (NIV)

20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.

Perhaps I should start beating my employees? As long as they don't die before a day or two of course.

Readers, decide for yourself if the words of JP ring true and slaves were just employees.

[bluethread]

Owning humans as property is evil IMO.

I do not contest the fact that there is duplicity on the part of may Christians. However, this is the root of the problem. Humanists impose their moral imperatives on the Scriptures and Christians simply buy into them without question. Though slavery is not a positive good in the Scriptures, it is used to assure compliance with the rule of law, just as it is practiced in the current penal system of these United States.

[Divine Insight]

Humanists impose their moral imperatives on the Scriptures and Christians simply buy into them without question.

This is why Christianity is morally bankrupt.

If we obtain our moral values from the Bible we can condone all manner of behaviors that our currently considered to be immoral based on the views of Humanists.

We are even seeing this come to fruition today in the USA by those who support Donald Trump's moral bankruptcy. Perhaps we need to remember that groups who support white supremacy like the KKK totally view themselves as "Christians" who are in complete harmony with Biblical law.

Arguing that such groups distort the Bible or Christianity is futile. That's just Christians arguing among themselves. They just beat each other over the head with their own Biblical scriptures.

[bluethread]

Humanists impose their moral imperatives on the Scriptures and Christians simply buy into them without question.

This is why Christianity is morally bankrupt.

If we obtain our moral values from the Bible we can condone all manner of behaviors that our currently considered to be immoral based on the views of Humanists.

Every philosophy can consider other philosophies as morally bankrupt as long as they consider their premises as sacrosanct. If one obtains one's moral values from humanism, one can condone all manner of behaviors that are immoral based on the views of those who hold to any other philosophy.

We are even seeing this come to fruition today in the USA by those who support Donald Trump's moral bankruptcy. Perhaps we need to remember that groups who support white supremacy like the KKK totally view themselves as "Christians" who are in complete harmony with Biblical law.

This is broad brushing. Groups who support white supremacy like the KKK are a miniscule minority of Trump supporters and Christians.

Arguing that such groups distort the Bible or Christianity is futile. That's just Christians arguing among themselves. They just beat each other over the head with their own Biblical scriptures.

By the same token one can say, arguing that Nazi and other humanist eugenicists distort humanism is futile. That is just humanists arguing among themselves. They just beat each other over the head with their own humanist ideologies.

By the way, since it appears to be the new humanist litmus test regarding morality, do you now or have you ever supported white supremacy?