Is there an answer to Islamic terrorism?

[marco]

And so beautiful Barcelona joins the list of cities terrorists have attacked. I don't doubt that there are those who will say America and the West are responsible. One of the terrorists apparently wrote of his desire to kill infidels.

I was in Madrid a few weeks ago and had intended to revisit Barcelona and its busy street, Las Ramblas, where the atrocities occurred. So terror is just a breath away, at least here in Europe.

Is it possible for those who want to kill to be educated if not by impious Westerners by Imams? Are those who want to kill "infidels" already known in their home circles? Obviously the scale of this lunacy will grow and we will hear on our screens the fatuous: "They will not win." But they do.

What can we do to ensure "they will not win"? Should the world convert to Islam, at least nominally?

[KenRU]

The west is actually telling Muslims to go back into debauchery - and especially when the west tells Muslim women to be liberated by taking off their clothes, because the Holy Qur'an rightly tells them not to follow that way.

Arguably the silliest assertion I have heard on these forums, and that says a lot.

The only thing the "west" does is encourage choice. Which is something many holy books (Quran and the Bible, for example) discourage women to do.

There is no commandment from the west to shed clothes, lol, but there is a commandment for women to obey their husbands in the Quran.

What you conveniently seem to be ignoring JP, in your back and forth regarding blame, is intent. Something others here have tried to get you to acknowledge.

A 13 year old is duped into strapping on a bomb and detonating it in a crowded market killing dozens of innocent shoppers. A drone missile is fired at an Al Queda leader and an innocent bystander is killed. These are not moral equivalents to me. If you see them as the same, then I submit your moral compass is in need of some adjustment.

Decapitating priests, throwing acid in the face of young school girls, tossing gay men off the tops of buildings, killing cartoonists: these are not attacks on America nor on western culture. They are religiously inspired acts of hatred.

In fact, in Dabiq (the magazine of ISIS) they proudly state the following reasons why they hate and seek to kill westerners:

1) Because you are disbelievers.
2) Because you are liberal.
3) Because some of you are atheist.
4) For your crimes against Islam.
5) For your crimes against Muslims.
6) For invading our lands.

You'll note, JP, that items one through three will still inspire violence against the west regardless of whether or not the west apologizes, AND whether or not we "stop invading" their lands.

You have your head in the sand, JP if you think the kind of zealotry I listed above can be reasoned with.

In fact, I'm left to wonder why you choose to think you know more of their motivations than they do?

The west (as you like to denigrate) has its darker side, of course. No one denies otherwise. But it takes an insidious dark soul to purposefully kill (TARGET even) children and non-combatants. And, to lower the bar even farther, they are proud of their act, open and brazen about it - trumpeting the deaths of children as if a moral (lol) victory has been won.

That is the side I see you defending, JP. Identity politics aside, it isn't hard to find the most despicable villain in the story when children are purposefully targeted.

-all the best

[JP Cusick]

The west is actually telling Muslims to go back into debauchery - and especially when the west tells Muslim women to be liberated by taking off their clothes, because the Holy Qur'an rightly tells them not to follow that way.

Arguably the silliest assertion I have heard on these forums, and that says a lot.

The only thing the "west" does is encourage choice. Which is something many holy books (Quran and the Bible, for example) discourage women to do.

There is no commandment from the west to shed clothes, lol, but there is a commandment for women to obey their husbands in the Quran.

What you conveniently seem to be ignoring JP, in your back and forth regarding blame, is intent. Something others here have tried to get you to acknowledge.

A 13 year old is duped into strapping on a bomb and detonating it in a crowded market killing dozens of innocent shoppers. A drone missile is fired at an Al Queda leader and an innocent bystander is killed. These are not moral equivalents to me. If you see them as the same, then I submit your moral compass is in need of some adjustment.

Decapitating priests, throwing acid in the face of young school girls, tossing gay men off the tops of buildings, killing cartoonists: these are not attacks on America nor on western culture. They are religiously inspired acts of hatred.

In fact, in Dabiq (the magazine of ISIS) they proudly state the following reasons why they hate and seek to kill westerners:

1) Because you are disbelievers.
2) Because you are liberal.
3) Because some of you are atheist.
4) For your crimes against Islam.
5) For your crimes against Muslims.
6) For invading our lands.

You'll note, JP, that items one through three will still inspire violence against the west regardless of whether or not the west apologizes, AND whether or not we "stop invading" their lands.

You have your head in the sand, JP if you think the kind of zealotry I listed above can be reasoned with.

In fact, I'm left to wonder why you choose to think you know more of their motivations than they do?

The west (as you like to denigrate) has its darker side, of course. No one denies otherwise. But it takes an insidious dark soul to purposefully kill (TARGET even) children and non-combatants. And, to lower the bar even farther, they are proud of their act, open and brazen about it - trumpeting the deaths of children as if a moral (lol) victory has been won.

That is the side I see you defending, JP. Identity politics aside, it isn't hard to find the most despicable villain in the story when children are purposefully targeted.

-all the best

It is our own government of the West and of the USA who want you to hate and to fear the Muslims and to inflame your bigotry, and that is why your words are just parroting the words of the warmongering propaganda.

Your words are just a recorded programming, with nothing original.

It is not so-much that your words are wrong - but that your words are just expressing the western hateful bigotry, along with the western cowardice on top.

If anyone wants to find out the truth then that is easy enough to find, but in the west the truth is trampled under with so much ease.

[KenRU]

The west is actually telling Muslims to go back into debauchery - and especially when the west tells Muslim women to be liberated by taking off their clothes, because the Holy Qur'an rightly tells them not to follow that way.

Arguably the silliest assertion I have heard on these forums, and that says a lot.

The only thing the "west" does is encourage choice. Which is something many holy books (Quran and the Bible, for example) discourage women to do.

There is no commandment from the west to shed clothes, lol, but there is a commandment for women to obey their husbands in the Quran.

What you conveniently seem to be ignoring JP, in your back and forth regarding blame, is intent. Something others here have tried to get you to acknowledge.

A 13 year old is duped into strapping on a bomb and detonating it in a crowded market killing dozens of innocent shoppers. A drone missile is fired at an Al Queda leader and an innocent bystander is killed. These are not moral equivalents to me. If you see them as the same, then I submit your moral compass is in need of some adjustment.

Decapitating priests, throwing acid in the face of young school girls, tossing gay men off the tops of buildings, killing cartoonists: these are not attacks on America nor on western culture. They are religiously inspired acts of hatred.

In fact, in Dabiq (the magazine of ISIS) they proudly state the following reasons why they hate and seek to kill westerners:

1) Because you are disbelievers.
2) Because you are liberal.
3) Because some of you are atheist.
4) For your crimes against Islam.
5) For your crimes against Muslims.
6) For invading our lands.

You'll note, JP, that items one through three will still inspire violence against the west regardless of whether or not the west apologizes, AND whether or not we "stop invading" their lands.

You have your head in the sand, JP if you think the kind of zealotry I listed above can be reasoned with.

In fact, I'm left to wonder why you choose to think you know more of their motivations than they do?

The west (as you like to denigrate) has its darker side, of course. No one denies otherwise. But it takes an insidious dark soul to purposefully kill (TARGET even) children and non-combatants. And, to lower the bar even farther, they are proud of their act, open and brazen about it - trumpeting the deaths of children as if a moral (lol) victory has been won.

That is the side I see you defending, JP. Identity politics aside, it isn't hard to find the most despicable villain in the story when children are purposefully targeted.

-all the best

It is our own government of the West and of the USA who want you to hate and to fear the Muslims and to inflame your bigotry, and that is why your words are just parroting the words of the warmongering propaganda.

It’s as if you are not even reading what I write. I did not parrot any western or USA words, I parroted the words of the terrorist themselves.

I really think you should take someone seriously when they say they want to kill you.

Why do you doubt what they are actually saying?

Your words are just a recorded programming, with nothing original.

Even if they come from Dabiq? The website of ISIS? Really? Please explain this away for me.

It is not so-much that your words are wrong - but that your words are just expressing the western hateful bigotry, along with the western cowardice on top.

Lol, my words are not necessarily wrong? Well, I’m glad you left open the possibility that they might be right.

If you take nothing else from what I say, read the article I referenced above. It should scare the crap out of you – whether you blame the west and the USA or not.

If anyone wants to find out the truth then that is easy enough to find, but in the west the truth is trampled under with so much ease.

Or, you can read and listen to what the terrorists are actually saying. Why do you suppose their message is not the same one you are saying? I wonder which of us has the wrong message? The message I rec'd came from the mouths of the terrorists themselves and their various media outlets, and yours from ….?

[JP Cusick]

It’s as if you are not even reading what I write. I did not parrot any western or USA words, I parroted the words of the terrorist themselves.

I really think you should take someone seriously when they say they want to kill you.

Why do you doubt what they are actually saying?

I read every comment directed to me, and read the links too, and I like these discussions, and I do have real life friends or acquaintances who share your views.

You are not quoting anything from any so called terrorist, as it all comes from the American and western propaganda machine.

This is done in every war to demonize the so called enemy and paint them as the "bad guys", and to maintain the American people in support of the atrocities committed by our warmongering government.

We the USA are the ones murdering Muslim people by the hundreds of thousands and displacing millions, and our USA is the one making violent threats all around the planet earth.

Your words are just a recorded programming, with nothing original.

Even if they come from Dabiq? The website of ISIS? Really? Please explain this away for me.

The name of ISIS is just a made up enemy so the USA can murder Syrian citizens by calling every one as a terrorist, and the USA can track down any broadcast so the only way any ISIS message ever gets out is when the USA is the one broadcasting.

And I say that people like your self believe the hateful lies of the propaganda simply because it makes us feel superior - because our ignorant and violent society views our mass murders as our show of strength - when we are really just being morally bankrupt. I share the guilt.

It is not so-much that your words are wrong - but that your words are just expressing the western hateful bigotry, along with the western cowardice on top.

Lol, my words are not necessarily wrong? Well, I’m glad you left open the possibility that they might be right.

See how you twist my words just a little - to sooth thy self.

The problem is not that your words are wrong but that your words are just expressions of hateful bigotry and emotional fear.

If it were a debate of right from wrong without the hate or fear then it could be discussed more clearly and more honestly.

Or, you can read and listen to what the terrorists are actually saying. Why do you suppose their message is not the same one you are saying? I wonder which of us has the wrong message? The message I rec'd came from the mouths of the terrorists themselves and their various media outlets, and yours from ….?

Considering that the Muslim world is over a billion people then the so called terrorist are very few, and so listening to what a few criminals say is far from being the truth or being a representation of the whole.

It would be like quoting the KKK as the speakers for the USA, because the KKK has some 3k to 6k members so they could be claimed to represent the rest of the USA - which they do not.

So no - my message does not come from the so called terrorist, and my message is intended to speak for my own USA who is committing crimes against humanity with our warmongering.

[KenRU]

It’s as if you are not even reading what I write. I did not parrot any western or USA words, I parroted the words of the terrorist themselves.

I really think you should take someone seriously when they say they want to kill you.

Why do you doubt what they are actually saying?

I read every comment directed to me, and read the links too, and I like these discussions, and I do have real life friends or acquaintances who share your views.

You are not quoting anything from any so called terrorist, as it all comes from the American and western propaganda machine.

Please show the information I presented is false. If not, you are simply admitting your bias.

This is done in every war to demonize the so called enemy and paint them as the "bad guys", and to maintain the American people in support of the atrocities committed by our warmongering government.

Then it should be easy for you to show you speak the truth.

Your words are just a recorded programming, with nothing original.

Even if they come from Dabiq? The website of ISIS? Really? Please explain this away for me.

The name of ISIS is just a made up enemy so the USA can murder Syrian citizens by calling every one as a terrorist, and the USA can track down any broadcast so the only way any ISIS message ever gets out is when the USA is the one broadcasting.

Show you speak the truth that the link and quotes are not from a member of a terrorist group.

And I say that people like your self believe the hateful lies of the propaganda simply because it makes us feel superior - because our ignorant and violent society views our mass murders as our show of strength - when we are really just being morally bankrupt. I share the guilt.

Speak for yourself please, and not for me.

Show me the link I sent you is faked, and I might reconsider my position. If you can’t, might you be willing to change your opinion?

It is not so-much that your words are wrong - but that your words are just expressing the western hateful bigotry, along with the western cowardice on top.

Lol, my words are not necessarily wrong? Well, I’m glad you left open the possibility that they might be right.

See how you twist my words just a little - to sooth thy self.

No, not to soothe myself. I took plain meaning from your words. If you did not mean to allow for the possibility, then you should have said so.

The problem is not that your words are wrong but that your words are just expressions of hateful bigotry and emotional fear.

Please quote something I said that is an expression of “hateful bigotry and emotional fear�.

If it were a debate of right from wrong without the hate or fear then it could be discussed more clearly and more honestly.

It should be easy then for you to show me that I am wrong, instead of just saying so.

I await your evidence.

Or, you can read and listen to what the terrorists are actually saying. Why do you suppose their message is not the same one you are saying? I wonder which of us has the wrong message? The message I rec'd came from the mouths of the terrorists themselves and their various media outlets, and yours from ….?

Considering that the Muslim world is over a billion people then the so called terrorist are very few, and so listening to what a few criminals say is far from being the truth or being a representation of the whole.

I don’t conflate Muslim with Terrorist. To assume I do is an error on your part.

I find it baffling that I have to make this clear: I am directing my points to the muslim terrorists mentioned in the OP. The ones who behead ppl. The ones who state they actively hate the west and wish to kill all who oppose allah. The ones that shoot little girls in the head for going to school. The one’s who wish to kill homosexuals and apostates.

I find it baffling that you find this positions bigoted. If someone doesn’t stand for the above, then I have no beef with them.

It would be like quoting the KKK as the speakers for the USA, because the KKK has some 3k to 6k members so they could be claimed to represent the rest of the USA - which they do not.

Wrong analogy. It would be like quoting one KKK member who accurately speaks for the organization.

So no - my message does not come from the so called terrorist, and my message is intended to speak for my own USA who is committing crimes against humanity with our warmongering.

Great. Show me that the link and quote I posted is faked. Until then, you are just exposing your own bias and denying not just what the terrorists themselves are saying, but actually doing.

-all the best
(sorry for the delayed response)

[JP Cusick]

Show you speak the truth that the link and quotes are not from a member of a terrorist group.

Show me the link I sent you is faked, and I might reconsider my position.

Show me that the link and quote I posted is faked.

I went through all 7 pages of this thread and neither you nor the OP offers any link to anything.

Normally I would not appreciate searching through so much to find nothing - but there was great satisfaction and humor for me as I found no links anywhere.

So yes - the proof is hereby supplied - all your links are fake - because there is no link at all.



And I do sympathize and empathize because I too get threads confused about which thread I said or posted whatever as it is easy to get mixed up.

[KenRU]

Show you speak the truth that the link and quotes are not from a member of a terrorist group.

Show me the link I sent you is faked, and I might reconsider my position.

Show me that the link and quote I posted is faked.

I went through all 7 pages of this thread and neither you nor the OP offers any link to anything.

I am sorry, I thought for certain that I posted the link earlier.

For what it's worth, just do a quick google search on Dabiq: Why We Hate You, and you will find many articles discussing ISIS's publication of this 82 page document. Page 30 contains the relevant information, and it is aptly titled, Why We Hate You & Why We Fight You.

Link: https://clarionproject.org/factsheets-f ... -cross.pdf

Normally I would not appreciate searching through so much to find nothing - but there was great satisfaction and humor for me as I found no links anywhere.

It was on honest oversight, JP. That is all.

So yes - the proof is hereby supplied - all your links are fake - because there is no link at all.

And now that I have provided them? I assume you will be able to show it is faked, correct?

Once again, I apologize for citing a link I failed to provide, but it was simply an oversight. Which has now been remedied.

And I do sympathize and empathize because I too get threads confused about which thread I said or posted whatever as it is easy to get mixed up.

It can be quite challenging.

All the best

[paarsurrey1]

Is there an answer to Islamic terrorism?

Islam is a religion, not a person, so why associate terrorism with Islam, please?
Regards

[marco]

Is there an answer to Islamic terrorism?

Islam is a religion, not a person, so why associate terrorism with Islam, please?
Regards

Perhaps you misunderstand the question. The atrocities we see often finish with the words Allahu Akbar, showing the perpetrator was Muslim. There are other types of terrorism but I am discussing Islamic terrorism here - which means the kind of terrorism that enters an office and kills people because they insulted Muhammad. That kind of terrorism! Imams have been imprisoned for encouraging young children to kill non-believers - that kind of terrorism! And Asad Shah, an Ahmadiyya Muslim was murdered in Glasgow this year because he befriended Christians, thus "disrespecting Islam" - that type of terrorism!


I hope this clears up the confusion. Best regards

[Bust Nak]

It is our own government of the West and of the USA who want you to hate and to fear the Muslims and to inflame your bigotry, and that is why your words are just parroting the words of the warmongering propaganda.

We fear and hate terrorists who mean us harm. Why do you want to equate that to fearing and hating Muslims?

Who is doing more harm to the relation between the West and Islamic countries, those like us who understand the difference between terrorists and Muslims, or those like you who want to muddle the water between terrorists and Muslims?

Is there an answer to Islamic terrorism?

Islam is a religion, not a person, so why associate terrorism with Islam, please?

Ask the terrorists, they are the ones who wants to associate terrorism with Islam. I think it makes it easier to a) justify their actions, b) get more recruits and c) they actually believe they are fighting a holy war.