Did Jesus proclaim that he was raised from the dead?

[paarsurrey1]

Did Jesus proclaim that he was raised from the dead?

This claim was invented by Paul and the Church. Jesus never made this wrong claim . Did he, please?
Regards

__________
Reference : Post 64 "Jesus was not a Christian "

[bjs]

Matthew 16:21, “From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.�

[alwayson]

[Replying to post 1 by paarsurrey1]

Do you understand that Paul's letters are the earliest documents describing Jesus?

The Gospels were written by later members of Paul's sect.

[paarsurrey1]

Matthew 16:21, “From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.�

Matthew 16:21, “From that time on Jesus

It is a third person narrative from Matthew. Please quote first person narrative from Jesus to support one's viewpoint. Will one, please?
Regards

[liamconnor]

[Replying to post 1 by paarsurrey1]

1 Cor. 15 attributes the belief in Jesus' resurrection to the original disciples. Paul did not make it up.

The demand that Jesus have written something is, frankly, a little naive. Most of our historical knowledge comes to us second hand (so and so says that so and so did such and such).

Thus we are left with all four gospels indicating that Jesus had predicted his resurrection. IF Jesus did not actually do so, then it is made up by the early church. But then so is the cluelessness attributed to the disciples. This is tough to swallow historically. The better explanation is that Jesus did predict his death and resurrection. He may not have done so so clearly as the gospels portray, and so the the disciples' befuddlement was understandable. In fact, he may not have originally meant his own private resurrection, but rather the general resurrection. We don't know.


regards

[tam]

[Replying to post 4 by paarsurrey1]

[Jesus] said to them, “These are the words I spoke to you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about Me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms.� Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures. And He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day..." Luke 24:44-46


Peace to you.

[paarsurrey1]

[Replying to post 1 by paarsurrey1]

1 Cor. 15 attributes the belief in Jesus' resurrection to the original disciples. Paul did not make it up.

The demand that Jesus have written something is, frankly, a little naive. Most of our historical knowledge comes to us second hand (so and so says that so and so did such and such).

Thus we are left with all four gospels indicating that Jesus had predicted his resurrection. IF Jesus did not actually do so, then it is made up by the early church. But then so is the cluelessness attributed to the disciples. This is tough to swallow historically. The better explanation is that Jesus did predict his death and resurrection. He may not have done so so clearly as the gospels portray, and so the the disciples' befuddlement was understandable. In fact, he may not have originally meant his own private resurrection, but rather the general resurrection. We don't know.
regards

IF Jesus did not actually do so, then it is made up by the early church. But then so is the cluelessness attributed to the disciples. This is tough to swallow historically.

The above entails that what the scribes portray in the Gospels or in the Letters/Acts etc are open to investigation from the clues in itself to correct the events to make them pertaining to history or else these simply don't make part of history. Right, please?
Regards

[dio9]

Did Jesus proclaim that he was raised from the dead?

This claim was invented by Paul and the Church. Jesus never made this wrong claim . Did he, please?
Regards

__________
Reference : Post 64 "Jesus was not a Christian "

in this case action speaks louder than words.

[tam]

Matthew 16:21, “From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.�

Matthew 16:21, “From that time on Jesus

It is a third person narrative from Matthew. Please quote first person narrative from Jesus to support one's viewpoint. Will one, please?
Regards

The quote from Christ in the book of Luke does what you have asked for, does it not? To repeat it:



He said to them, "This is what I told you when I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms." Then He opened their minds so they could understand the scriptures. He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day..." Luke 24:44:46


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 5 by liamconnor]

IF Jesus did not actually do so, then it is made up by the early church. But then so is the cluelessness attributed to the disciples. This is tough to swallow historically.

If your reasoning is that the disciples wouldn't have made up stories (as in fictional ones) where they look stupid, then please explain why they would mention their being stupid in the case of the stories being true?
Take the Last Supper scene from Gospel John for example. Jesus exposes Judas as being the disciple who will betray him. Judas is allowed to leave by the other disciples. They all express befuddlement as to why he has a pouch of money (that part spells it out as being a fictional story to me, since it serves as a sort of Chekov's Gun: thinking chronologically, there would be no reason for any of these characters to wonder about one of them having coins unless we look at it from a literary perspective i.e. we remember that later on it is revealed in the story that Judas got the coins as payment for his treachery).

If a bunch of men were telling you that their master rose from the dead, and also that during their last meal with him, they were complete and utter morons...why would you put any stock in what they say about their master?
Are they wise men, learned disciples who studied at the feet of Jesus, whom we should look up to and revere for their knowledge and wisdom?