Did Jehovah forsake Jesus to die on the Cross lonely and crying?
I don't believe that.
The scribes must have got wrong information, after-all they were not there to witness the event to report it correctly. Right,please?
Regards
_______
Reference : post 9 thread "Do we have first person narrative/s from Jesus? "
Did Jehovah forsake Jesus to die on the Cross?
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Post #2
Peace to you paarsurrey,
He did die on the cross. But He was not forsaken by God.
He had to experience all that we (mankind) can experience, including the feeling of being forsaken - even if just for a moment during His extreme suffering. Because even in that moment, Christ did not 'curse God and die'. He did not deny God; He did not get angry at God or even those who put Him on the cross. He did not even call out that He changed His mind or say that He was no longer willing to do the will of His Father.
No. He remained faithful right to the end, even through His suffering, giving His life and doing the will of His Father even unto His own death. He even asked forgiveness for His enemies, proving Himself to be a son of His Father in heaven. (Matthew 5:44, 45)
So there can be no accusation made against Him; there is no question that He deserves to be the heir of God's Kingdom. No one can say of Him, "If He suffers, He will deny God and disobey Him," or, "If He feels forsaken, He will deny God and disobey Him."
No one can say these things because Christ answered each of these accusations by what He did. He remained faithful and loyal and obedient to God right unto His death, even through His suffering, even through a momentary feeling of having been forsaken. Why? Because He TRULY loves His Father. TRULY. He does not obey His Father because of what He might 'get' for himself, but because truly loves Him.
Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
He did die on the cross. But He was not forsaken by God.
He had to experience all that we (mankind) can experience, including the feeling of being forsaken - even if just for a moment during His extreme suffering. Because even in that moment, Christ did not 'curse God and die'. He did not deny God; He did not get angry at God or even those who put Him on the cross. He did not even call out that He changed His mind or say that He was no longer willing to do the will of His Father.
No. He remained faithful right to the end, even through His suffering, giving His life and doing the will of His Father even unto His own death. He even asked forgiveness for His enemies, proving Himself to be a son of His Father in heaven. (Matthew 5:44, 45)
So there can be no accusation made against Him; there is no question that He deserves to be the heir of God's Kingdom. No one can say of Him, "If He suffers, He will deny God and disobey Him," or, "If He feels forsaken, He will deny God and disobey Him."
No one can say these things because Christ answered each of these accusations by what He did. He remained faithful and loyal and obedient to God right unto His death, even through His suffering, even through a momentary feeling of having been forsaken. Why? Because He TRULY loves His Father. TRULY. He does not obey His Father because of what He might 'get' for himself, but because truly loves Him.
Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
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Re: Did Jehovah forsake Jesus to die on the Cross?
Post #3[Replying to post 1 by paarsurrey1]
Yes, it seems obvious from the quote that Jesus recognized the horrors of the OT, the flood, Exodus, Sodom and Gomorrah, the endless meaningless misery because God couldn't admit and fix his mistake right in the beginning with the Garden of Eden.
Yes, it seems obvious from the quote that Jesus recognized the horrors of the God, forsook God and joined Satan's forces in a way similar to a second fall.
That was the true sacrifice God made: He gave his only begotten son as a sacrifice. But there is only one other power to be sacrificed to: Satan.
Yes, it seems obvious from the quote that Jesus recognized the horrors of the OT, the flood, Exodus, Sodom and Gomorrah, the endless meaningless misery because God couldn't admit and fix his mistake right in the beginning with the Garden of Eden.
Yes, it seems obvious from the quote that Jesus recognized the horrors of the God, forsook God and joined Satan's forces in a way similar to a second fall.
That was the true sacrifice God made: He gave his only begotten son as a sacrifice. But there is only one other power to be sacrificed to: Satan.
Re: Did Jehovah forsake Jesus to die on the Cross?
Post #4[Replying to post 1 by paarsurrey1]
Jesus is quoted as asking his god why that god forsook him. If the quotation is accurate, then Jesus obviously believed he was forsaken. This reaction on the part of Jesus seems hypocritical. He lost his faith. He told us not to lose faith.
Jesus is quoted as asking his god why that god forsook him. If the quotation is accurate, then Jesus obviously believed he was forsaken. This reaction on the part of Jesus seems hypocritical. He lost his faith. He told us not to lose faith.
Post #5
[Replying to post 2 by tam]
If he felt forsaken, then he lost his faith.No one can say these things because Christ answered each of these accusations by what He did. He remained faithful and loyal and obedient to God right unto His death, even through His suffering, even through a momentary feeling of having been forsaken.
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Re: Did Jehovah forsake Jesus to die on the Cross?
Post #7[Replying to post 1 by paarsurrey1]
لماذا مات يسوع؟�
ان موت يسوع مهم جدا �ي الكتاب المقدس.� شاهد هذا ال�يديو لتعر� لماذا مات يسوع.�
I know that Muslims do not believe Jesus died but that he somehow was replaced (swapped) on the "cross" or that he somehow survived the ordeal and was later revived presumably with just a slight headache later that day. The bible however does present Jesus as dying and his death being confirmed to the authorities. It is not a reasonable conclusion to say that somehow between his arrest and execution another man was slipped in to take his place.
JW
Watch please: ما الØاجة الى درس الكتاب المقدس؟
لماذا مات يسوع؟�
ان موت يسوع مهم جدا �ي الكتاب المقدس.� شاهد هذا ال�يديو لتعر� لماذا مات يسوع.�
I know that Muslims do not believe Jesus died but that he somehow was replaced (swapped) on the "cross" or that he somehow survived the ordeal and was later revived presumably with just a slight headache later that day. The bible however does present Jesus as dying and his death being confirmed to the authorities. It is not a reasonable conclusion to say that somehow between his arrest and execution another man was slipped in to take his place.
JW
Watch please: ما الØاجة الى درس الكتاب المقدس؟
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: Did Jehovah forsake Jesus to die on the Cross?
Post #8JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 1 by paarsurrey1]
لماذا مات يسوع؟�
ان موت يسوع مهم جدا �ي الكتاب المقدس.� شاهد هذا ال�يديو لتعر� لماذا مات يسوع.�
I know that Muslims do not believe Jesus died but that he somehow was replaced (swapped) on the "cross" or that he somehow survived the ordeal and was later revived presumably with just a slight headache later that day. The bible however does present Jesus as dying and his death being confirmed to the authorities. It is not a reasonable conclusion to say that somehow between his arrest and execution another man was slipped in to take his place.
JW
Watch please: ما الØاجة الى درس الكتاب المقدس؟
Here in this forum we discuss issues from the Clues in the NT-Bible and Torah. Since one has mentioned Islam/Muslim so I request one to please quote from Quran, the first and the foremost source of Islam/Quran/Muhammad, whatever the denomination, to support one's assertion. Yes, Jesus did not die on the Quran but I don't find anything like "replacement" or like "headache" mentioned in Quran, please.I know that Muslims do not believe Jesus died but that he somehow was replaced (swapped) on the "cross" or that he somehow survived the ordeal and was later revived presumably with just a slight headache later that day.
Regards
___________
One may like to read Post 1 in the thread "Did Jesus die on the Cross?"
in the sub-forum Non-Christian Religions and Philosophies
Last edited by paarsurrey1 on Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #9
But you do cry out in despair to someone who has forsaken you. Which is what happened.tam wrote: [Replying to post 5 by Jagella]
You don't cry out to someone you don't believe in.
Peace to you!
I will never understand how someone who claims to know the ultimate truth, of God, believes they deserve respect, when they cannot distinguish it from a fairy-tale.
You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.
To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight
You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.
To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight
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Re: Did Jehovah forsake Jesus to die on the Cross?
Post #10[Replying to post 8 by paarsurrey1]
I understand that, Muslims are wrong if they believe in replacement, they are also wrong if they believe Jesus did not die in agony. The bible gives a true report of Jesus' last moments, and yes, he was deeply distressed at the end of his life. Right, please?
JW
I have linked you to further information in arabic, if you would like to learn more.
https://www.jw.org/ar
I understand that, Muslims are wrong if they believe in replacement, they are also wrong if they believe Jesus did not die in agony. The bible gives a true report of Jesus' last moments, and yes, he was deeply distressed at the end of his life. Right, please?
JW
I have linked you to further information in arabic, if you would like to learn more.
اقتيد يسوع الى الجلجثة Øيث سمّره الجنود الرومان على خشبة.â€� بعد ذلك،â€� Øلّت ظلمة عجائبية Ù�ÙŠ ÙˆØ¶Ø Ø§Ù„Ù†Ù‡Ø§Ø±.â€� ÙˆÙ�ÙŠ وقت متأخر بعد ظهر ذلك اليوم،â€� اسلم يسوع Ø§Ù„Ø±ÙˆØ ÙˆØدث زلزال عظيم.â€� ثم ÙˆÙ�وري جسده قبرا Ù…ØÙ�ورا Ù�ÙŠ الصخر.â€� ÙˆÙ�ÙŠ الغد،â€� ختم الكهنة القبر وأقاموا Øرسا على مدخله.â€� ولكن هل بقي يسوع مدÙ�ونا Ù�ÙŠ ذلك القبر؟â€� كلا،â€� Ù�ما هي الا Ù�ترة وجيزة Øتى Øدثت اعظم العجائب قاطبة.â€�
​—â€� استنادا الى متى،â€� الاصØاØين ٢٦ Ùˆ ٢٧؛â€� مرقس،â€� الاصØاØين ١٤ Ùˆ ١٥؛â€� لوقا،â€� الاصØاØين ٢٢ Ùˆ ٢٣؛â€� يوØنا،â€� الاصØاØات ١٢ الى ١٩â€�.â€�
https://www.jw.org/ar
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8