The kingdom of God.

[Checkpoint]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

[onewithhim]

Peace to you!

We really are not going to have to guess about Christ's return or the establishment of His Kingdom upon the earth. The only reason people 'guess' about it now, is because He has not yet returned, but some mistakenly believe He did, or that He should have, and so they have to come up with such things as an 'invisible' return.

At least Harold Camping repented and withdrew that claim before he died. Others continue to teach it, rather than admit or see that they (or their leaders) were wrong.


But we will all see Him when He returns. There will be no guesswork, there will be no question. No one will have to go around telling others who can't see for themselves that He has returned (just invisibly). Every eye will see Him.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Wrong?

When I posted that it was a mixture of truth, half-truth, and false teaching, I was asked to give an example of false teaching.

It was easy: 1914.

How can you say that it was a false teaching? It was correct in its assessment of the times of the Gentiles coming to an end.

[onewithhim]

Peace to you!

We really are not going to have to guess about Christ's return or the establishment of His Kingdom upon the earth. The only reason people 'guess' about it now, is because He has not yet returned, but some mistakenly believe He did, or that He should have, and so they have to come up with such things as an 'invisible' return.

At least Harold Camping repented and withdrew that claim before he died. Others continue to teach it, rather than admit or see that they (or their leaders) were wrong.


But we will all see Him when He returns. There will be no guesswork, there will be no question. No one will have to go around telling others who can't see for themselves that He has returned (just invisibly). Every eye will see Him.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Wrong?

When I posted that it was a mixture of truth, half-truth, and false teaching, I was asked to give an example of false teaching.

It was easy: 1914.

I'm sorry, Checkpoint. My post was not referring to anything in particular from you or from your previous post. Mine was just a general comment. I am certainly not disagreeing with you about the 1914 teaching. It is wrong aka incorrect aka untrue aka false.



Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

And no one has seen the falsehood of many of YOUR statements on this forum? Does everyone agree with you that Jesus speaks directly to you?

[tam]

[Replying to post 191 by onewithhim]

It's rather counter-productive to a discussion to totally blind-side it by not answering a simple question as to what Psalm 37:9 & 29 means. You, rather, ask a question that has nothing to do with the point under consideration.

I'm sorry but I'm afraid your objection has 'blind-sided' me, lol. You did not ask any questions as to what those verses mean. You simply cited them. I think they are self-explanatory; so if there is a particular question about them that you wanted me to answer, then I'm going to need you to be specific.



Peace again to you OWH,
- a slave of Christ,
tammy

What do the verses 9 & 29 of Psalm 37 mean?

Please see post 204, but I think they mean exactly what they say.


Peace to you.

Well, I guess I should stop trying to get a straight answer from you. You will not clearly explain your ideas, and it would have helped me to understand you if you had answered my succinct questions as I presented them to you. You have not, and are seemingly avoiding any clear answers to my questions. You have done a good job of skirting around the issues and redirecting attention to some other vague area of opinion, so that anyone looking on will be just as confused as they may have been from the start.

From post 204:

The verses simply state that the righteous and those who hope in God will inherit the earth. One cannot use those verses to exclude any of the righteous or any of those who hope in God from that promise of inheriting the earth.




Peace again to you,
- a slave of Christ,
tammy

[tam]

Peace to you!

We really are not going to have to guess about Christ's return or the establishment of His Kingdom upon the earth. The only reason people 'guess' about it now, is because He has not yet returned, but some mistakenly believe He did, or that He should have, and so they have to come up with such things as an 'invisible' return.

At least Harold Camping repented and withdrew that claim before he died. Others continue to teach it, rather than admit or see that they (or their leaders) were wrong.


But we will all see Him when He returns. There will be no guesswork, there will be no question. No one will have to go around telling others who can't see for themselves that He has returned (just invisibly). Every eye will see Him.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Wrong?

When I posted that it was a mixture of truth, half-truth, and false teaching, I was asked to give an example of false teaching.

It was easy: 1914.

I'm sorry, Checkpoint. My post was not referring to anything in particular from you or from your previous post. Mine was just a general comment. I am certainly not disagreeing with you about the 1914 teaching. It is wrong aka incorrect aka untrue aka false.



Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

And no one has seen the falsehood of many of YOUR statements on this forum? Does everyone agree with you that Jesus speaks directly to you?

Does everyone need to agree with something in order for it to be true?


Peace again,
- a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 309 by onewithhim]

Checkpoint wrote:

When I posted that it was a mixture of truth, half-truth, and false teaching, I was asked to give an example of false teaching.

It was easy: 1914.

You replied:

How can you say that it was a false teaching? It was correct in its assessment of the times of the Gentiles coming to an end.

All dates that have ever been set have been a false teaching.

Do you know why?

[tam]

Peace to you JW,

[Replying to post 275 by JehovahsWitness]

So setting aside the differences in understanding as to the Kingdom, which seem at least in part to come down to a difference in understanding of words... lets move onto timing a little.


You (the WTS at least) say 1914. May I ask how the Kingdom (using your understanding of the Kingdom) has been ruling since 1914? In what way?

Since Jesus has been given permission to start to exercise his specific government powers he has done so in the following ways:

#1 He has begun gathering his "cabinet members" or "co-rulers" to be with him in order to assume their governmental roles, many of which are already in heaven working in their chosen positions (see Phil 3:20; Rev 20:6)

Has He not been calling, gathering, and training the members of His Bride (His Body) since the very start, two thousand years ago? Or are you suggesting that in 1914 many of those who make up the Bride (the Body) of Christ were resurrected and are at this moment alive and working (instead of sleeping, awaiting the first resurrection)? Are you suggesting that the first resurrection occurred in 1914?


Rev 20:6 that you cited speaks of the first resurrection (singular) and those who will reign with Christ for a thousand years. It does not speak of the first resurrection beginning in 1914 and carrying on for more than a century. Indeed, the first resurrection occurs at one time (and some never die at all). Those who have died and those who are still alive are changed "in a twinkling".

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord. 1Thess 4:16, 17

Are you suggesting that Christ descended from heaven already (in 1914) with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God? If not, then how could the dead in Christ have already risen?

Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 1Corinth 15:52

We will all be changed, in an instant, at the last trumpet.

#2 He has taken needed military action to protect the integrity of this endeavor (Rev 12: 7,8)

Did Christ not do that two thousand years ago, defeating the Adversary and his work? Why would you not think that the prince of this world was cast out at that time? (John 12:31)

#3 He has He has gathered and is educating millions of subjects, already loyal to his government as to future requirements ((Isaiah 65:13, 14; Rev 7:9).

I don't see how either of those verses support what you are saying, other than to suggest that He has servants and a great multitude that stands before the throne and the lamb, wearing white robes, faithful to Him.


He, however, is and has been training His Bride (His Body) from the start, teaching them (truth, mercy, love, faith...), training them in all righteousness, subduing them in order to prepare them to reign with Him as kings and priests in His Kingdom. He has been leading them into all truth... right from the start (two thousand years ago).

This did not start in 1914.

A religion might have started in and around 1914, but sadly - so very sadly for all those men and women in the religion who sincerely wish to do what God wants - that religion does not teach its members to obey Christ in all things.

#4 He has publically put the national governments of the world on notice, (through a global campaign conducted by his earthly representatives: Jehovah's Witnesses) that their right to rule has terminated and they should submit or face the consequences (Ps 1:6-12)

Sounds to me (verse 9) like they were put on warning a long time ago. Nor do I think that JW's are the first or the last to remind the rulers of this world (religious or political) of these things.

#5 He has previewed a date for the taking over of power from human to Divine rule as well as the angelic military force in place to ensure that that takeover takes place (Dan 2:44)

I don't know what this means: 'previewed a date'. Can you elaborate? In your elaboration, can you explain why this is something that happened in 1914, but not before 1914? Thank you.




Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy


(edited to fix quote box)

[JehovahsWitness]

Has He not been calling, gathering, and training the members of His Bride (His Body) since the very start, two thousand years ago?

Did I mention training? I thought I said "calling and gathering"?

Are you suggesting that Christ descended from heaven already (in 1914) with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God?

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 214#752214

[tam]

Has He not been calling, gathering, and training the members of His Bride (His Body) since the very start, two thousand years ago?

Did I mention training? I thought I said "calling and gathering"?

How is that relevant?

(Take out "training" if you want; the question is the same for the calling and gathering.)

Are you suggesting that Christ descended from heaven already (in 1914) with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God?

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 214#752214

I am sorry, I do not see what is meant to respond to my question, from those posts.


Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[JehovahsWitness]

Has He not been calling, gathering, and training the members of His Bride (His Body) since the very start, two thousand years ago?

Did I mention training? I thought I said "calling and gathering"?

How is that relevant?

It is relevant in that you are attributing words to me that I did not say, although I express myself far from perfectly I do not appreciate being misquoted or told that I said something that I did not.

(Take out "training" if you want; the question is the same for the calling and gathering.)

No, YOU take it out, you put it in. It is disengenuous to imply someone said something they did not and then instead of humbly acknowledge the mistake made attack the person as if they were being unduly unreasonable when they simply point this out. Don't you think?


JW

[paarsurrey1]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

Please give a reference from the Jewish Bible where the phrase "Kingdom of God" has been literally mentioned. Right, please?
Regards