The kingdom of God.

[Checkpoint]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

[JehovahsWitness]

They tell us the thousand years ends before there is "an end to tears and death and a period when the tent of God will be with mankind."

No it says that the rest of the dead won't come to life until after the thousand years are ended. It doesn't speak about people dying during the thousand year rule. That statement does not negate anythiing the onewithim said, namely

Then the "great crowd" that survives Armageddon (which means the very end of the Great Tribulation) will be welcomed by God into a new beginning---a world where there is no hatred or suffering---and a fresh start for the earth to recover from the mishandling it has had for thousands of years, and a time that we call Jesus' Thousand-Year Reign.

Thus the war of Armageddon will usher in a new era for obedient mankind, a time when suffering hatred and pain will come to an end. The "beginning" will be great, the end of that period (the end of the thousand years) will be better!






JW

[Checkpoint]

[[url=http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/

Jesus had warned us not look for Christ here and there,

for the Kingdom of God is within you.
It has been with us and within us for past 2000 years.

Luke 8:1
After this Jesus traveled from one town and village to another
proclaiming the good news of the Kingdom of God.

Yes, with and within believers.

However, when Jesus said those words he was talking to the Pharisees, unbelievers.

Jesus used a word that can either be translated "within", "amongst", or "in the midst".

He was saying it was right there and they had missed it because they were looking for outward show rather than inward reality.

I disagree. He was saying that the Kingdom was there in their midst, meaning HIMSELF as the KING of that Kingdom that would take over the world some day It was not something that was merely "an inward reality."

Yes, we do disagree.

He was talking about the kingdom, not its king.

That kingdom was already present in changed lives and new authority.

The kingdom of God is not merely one "that would take over the world some day."

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 487 by onewithhim]


I posted:

Where, in Revelation 20, are we told that the thousand years will be

Quote:
a new beginning---a world where there is no hatred or suffering---and a fresh start for the earth to recover from the mishandling it has had for thousands of years,


???

Your reply was:

Just a little bit further, in Revelation chapter 21.

The thousand years have already ended before what comes after that, in 21.

[Checkpoint]

They tell us the thousand years ends before there is "an end to tears and death and a period when the tent of God will be with mankind."

No it says that the rest of the dead won't come to life until after the thousand years are ended. It doesn't speak about people dying during the thousand year rule. That statement does not negate anythiing the onewithim said, namely

Then the "great crowd" that survives Armageddon (which means the very end of the Great Tribulation) will be welcomed by God into a new beginning---a world where there is no hatred or suffering---and a fresh start for the earth to recover from the mishandling it has had for thousands of years, and a time that we call Jesus' Thousand-Year Reign.

Thus the war of Armageddon will usher in a new era for obedient mankind, a time when suffering hatred and pain will come to an end. The "beginning" will be great, the end of that period (the end of the thousand years) will be better!

JW

The new era that will be ushered in will be what replaces "the old order" that will have thus passed away, including its wars and its judgments.

[Checkpoint]

Where, in Revelation 20, are we told that the thousand years will be

a new beginning---a world where there is no hatred or suffering---and a fresh start for the earth to recover from the mishandling it has had for thousands of years,

???

The bible wasn't originally divided into chapters, that's just a manmade concept. If you read on a little from where it speaks of the kings ruling your well see it also speaks of an end to tears and death and a period when the tent of God will be with mankind.

Yes, chapters are manmade, but the scriptures are God-made.

They tell us the thousand years ends before there is "an end to tears and death and a period when the tent of God will be with mankind."

There is a lot of jumping around in the Scriptures. E.g., chapter 17 speaks of the Whore of Babylon being destroyed. Yet in chapter 18 there is an appeal to get out of her. Things aren't always in sequence in the Scriptures.

Exactly.

Chapter 20 is not in sequence, just as Chapter 12 is not.

[JehovahsWitness]

Chapter 20 is not in sequence, just as Chapter 12 is not.

• Then why did you mention chapters in the first place ? Onewithhim did not use the order of presentation to support her point, she referred to the sequence of events and linked them together. You were the one that asked for support within a chapter (that didn't even exist at the time of writing) of events that you admit are not even presented in chronological order.
  
  Which event goes where is indeed largely a matter of opinion, I don't see why YOUR opinion trumps my own or anyone elses. Jehovah's Witnesses take a wholisitc view of scripture which imho is much more convincing that anything you or anyone else has to offer.

You are of course free to disagree with our conclusions but nothing you have presented thus far has convinced me that your sequencing of events is a reflection of biblical truth.

[Checkpoint]

Chapter 20 is not in sequence, just as Chapter 12 is not.

• Then why did you mention chapters in the first place ? Onewithhim did not use the order of presentation to support her point, she referred to the sequence of events and linked them together. You were the one that asked for support within a chapter (that didn't even exist at the time of writing) of events that you admit are not even presented in chronological order.
  
  Which event goes where is indeed largely a matter of opinion, I don't see why YOUR opinion trumps my own or anyone elses. Jehovah's Witnesses take a wholisitc view of scripture which imho is much more convincing that anything you or anyone else has to offer.

You are of course free to disagree with our conclusions but nothing you have presented thus far has convinced me that your sequencing of events is a reflection of biblical truth.

Stalemate, then; we can only agree to disagree.

That's nothing new, it happens all the time on this debate site.

I will continue to present and promote my views, and you will continue to present and promote JW views.

[TripleZ]

[Replying to post 1 by Checkpoint]

In my experience, few can actually define what God's kingdom is, most launch into a rather vague discourse about it being something about heaven and in ones heart. I will leave the thread to demonstrate how few people (especially nominal Christians) can actually say what God's kingdom is.

God's kingdom refers to his heavenly government which has been in operation since the year 1914 (compare Daniel 4:10-16; Ezekiel 17:22-24; 31:2-5 ; Revelation 12:6, 14). In view of this yes, it is present (in operation) and future in the sense it has not yet taken control of the planet earth (Mat 6:9, 10).

When God's kingdom government does take control of the planet (earth), all human governments will be destroyed and the earth will at long last be the paradise-like "garden" God intended it to be (Dan 2:44; Mat 5:3).



JW



Further reading: 1914—A Significant Year in Bible Prophecy
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... -prophecy/
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... last-days/

I think I get your point, it does not matter an atom what others think, it only ever matters what Gods word is saying..

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 496 by TripleZ]

Well it's always gòd to respect others especially if they have proven trust worthy but yes, God's word remains the ultimate authority on matters of faith.

That is the Jehovah's witness view.

[TripleZ]

[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]

God's kingdom refers to his heavenly government which has been in operation since the year 1914 (compare Daniel 4:10-16; Ezekiel 17:22-24; 31:2-5 ; Revelation 12:6, 14). In view of this yes, it is present (in operation) and future in the sense it has not yet taken control of the planet earth (Mat 6:9, 10).


When God's kingdom government does take control of the planet (earth), all human governments will be destroyed and the earth will at long last be the paradise-like "garden" God intended it to be (Dan 2:44; Mat 5:3).

The gist of your position is that the kingdom is future only, but has a present aspect that started in 1914.

Why, in your view, was there no present aspect prior to 1914?

So, before 1914, there was no kingdom of God?

you greatly misunderstand the Scriptures.. your suppositions are NOT what is going to happen at all.
Try the FULL message on this;

Dan 2:44 "In the days of those kings the God of heaven will establish a kingdom that will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not pass into the hands of another people. It will break to pieces and consume all those kingdoms; but it, itself, will stand forever —
Dan 2:45 like the stone you saw, which, without human hands, separated itself from the mountain and broke to pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold. The great God has revealed to the king what will come about in the future. The dream is true, and its interpretation is reliable."
This applies to Israel....
Mat 5:3 "How blessed are the poor in spirit! for the Kingdom of Heaven is theirs. also to Israel, obviously you feel that this ( passage ) applies to the topic at hand, but how it does is a mystery ? Can you explain this to us ?
Where do you think Gods Kingdom actually IS located ?