The kingdom of God.

[Checkpoint]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

[marco]

[Replying to marco]

Indeed God is an unknown quantity.

Well it is good to have agreement. Neither you nor I nor the Old Man of the Mountain knows who or where God is.

Perhaps ignorance is indeed bliss.

[dio9]

[Replying to marco]

Socrates said something like ignorance is bliss too, wisdom is knowing that you don't know. In my words this is the beginning of knowledge. If we hope to know something anything about God and the kingdom of God we have to empty our heads of all the various religious creeds theories thoughts of Man concepts prejudices and personal feelings we hold dear , a freedom from ignorance. Isaiah wrote " my words my thoughts are not your thoughts" Thus saith the Lord, God may be something like Nirvana and the kingdom a brotherhood of Man.

[marco]

[Replying to marco]

Socrates said something like ignorance is bliss too, wisdom is knowing that you don't know. In my words this is the beginning of knowledge. If we hope to know something anything about God and the kingdom of God we have to empty our heads of all the various religious creeds theories thoughts of Man concepts prejudices and personal feelings we hold dear , a freedom from ignorance. Isaiah wrote " my words my thoughts are not your thoughts" Thus saith the Lord, God may be something like Nirvana and the kingdom a brotherhood of Man.

Socrates was of course being disingenuous since he was aware he possessed wisdom superior to his listeners. By lowering himself he exalted himself.


If we are going to go back to basics and reassess what we've imbibed then words like "kingdom" should have no place in our vocabulary. It is possible that a party of gods live somewhere, as on Olympus; or that one solitary God sits surrrounded by singing cherubim; or that an Arab died and came back to life to "redeem" mankind. When we throw all this away we are left contemplating our navel. And maybe that's the best starting position.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to marco]

Socrates said something like ignorance is bliss too, wisdom is knowing that you don't know. In my words this is the beginning of knowledge. If we hope to know something anything about God and the kingdom of God we have to empty our heads of all the various religious creeds theories thoughts of Man concepts prejudices and personal feelings we hold dear , a freedom from ignorance. Isaiah wrote " my words my thoughts are not your thoughts" Thus saith the Lord, God may be something like Nirvana and the kingdom a brotherhood of Man.

Socrates was of course being disingenuous since he was aware he possessed wisdom superior to his listeners. By lowering himself he exalted himself.


If we are going to go back to basics and reassess what we've imbibed then words like "kingdom" should have no place in our vocabulary. It is possible that a party of gods live somewhere, as on Olympus; or that one solitary God sits surrrounded by singing cherubim; or that an Arab died and came back to life to "redeem" mankind. When we throw all this away we are left contemplating our navel. And maybe that's the best starting position.

Maybe not.

If we throw out the baby with the bathwater we are left with nothing.

[William]

[Replying to post 552 by Checkpoint]

If we throw out the baby with the bathwater we are left with nothing.

No. We are left with the bath.

[marco]

Maybe not.

If we throw out the baby with the bathwater we are left with nothing.

Not really - we have the bath and we can put fresh water in it. If the baby is a baby crocodile we can try for something less dangerous. Perhaps we could use Christ's amazing advice to be kind to others and forget about pleasing God in the process. That way we'd have a "kingdom" of kindness rather than a kingdom of God, whatever that is.

[Checkpoint]

Maybe not.

If we throw out the baby with the bathwater we are left with nothing.

Not really - we have the bath and we can put fresh water in it. If the baby is a baby crocodile we can try for something less dangerous. Perhaps we could use Christ's amazing advice to be kind to others and forget about pleasing God in the process. That way we'd have a "kingdom" of kindness rather than a kingdom of God, whatever that is.

What, in this scenario, then, is the bath?

What is the fresh water, and where do we get it from?

As for the baby, well, don't we all need a wash?

[marco]

What, in this scenario, then, is the bath?

What is the fresh water, and where do we get it from?

As for the baby, well, don't we all need a wash?

You are in the best position to answer these questions since you introduced the analogy. I said: "When we throw all this away we are left contemplating our navel. And maybe that's the best starting position."

And you retorted:


"Maybe not. If we throw out the baby with the bathwater we are left with nothing."


Possibly you were misled by the word navel and through this the umbilical chord to the baby. My own words meant that we can discard talk of kingdoms and holy subservience and concentrate on the problems of humanity. That's quite enough.

[Checkpoint]

What, in this scenario, then, is the bath?

What is the fresh water, and where do we get it from?

As for the baby, well, don't we all need a wash?

You are in the best position to answer these questions since you introduced the analogy. I said: "When we throw all this away we are left contemplating our navel. And maybe that's the best starting position."

And you retorted:


"Maybe not. If we throw out the baby with the bathwater we are left with nothing."


Possibly you were misled by the word navel and through this the umbilical chord to the baby. My own words meant that we can discard talk of kingdoms and holy subservience and concentrate on the problems of humanity. That's quite enough.

Our navel does not point us to nothing or no one, but to our origin, and that is the place to start.

Many of the problems of humanity are a fruit of the discarding of the acceptance of who brought us into being.

[marco]

Many of the problems of humanity are a fruit of the discarding of the acceptance of who brought us into being.

Many more problems are caused by those who place faith in their vision. How many have died painfully to let God's Kingdom come? And how many die across the globe today with the words Allah is great ringing around them? The biblical God deplored man to man relationships and poor souls in Africa are still killed to keep people in line with their God's wish.