The kingdom of God.

[Checkpoint]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

[JehovahsWitness]

THE WAR TO END ALL WARS

When talking about human rulership we have to ask who actually is the real power behind "these kingdoms"? The bible explains that "the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one" . Any destruction of "these kingdoms" will be ineffective unless the power that supports them is also destroyed. Thus we see that the crushing of "these kingdoms" must also mean the defeating of Satan and the demons in a violent battle for world domination. Spoiler ALERT: God wins!




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Can this conquest be in the spiritual sense of the conquest of the kingdom message ? No, because the kingdom that Daniel does not take control by subtle persuation, diplomatic negotiation or spiritual conversion .... it arrives on the world scene with explosive power destroys all the organisational entities and powers came before

It does not say it would be accomplished in one day, or that the establishment of Jesus’ kingdom would overthrow all governments immediately.

SLOW GRADUAL DEGREDATION OR INSTANT DESTRUCTION.

Nobody to my knowledge has or can say how long it will take for God to destroy human governments but Daniel pictures a rock, slamming from a great height into a statue. This indicates that while we can expect some time between the initial formation of the rock and the moment of impact, once impact is made the destruction will be almost "instantaneous" or immediately upon impact. Remember the rock does not merely conquer in the sense of dominante, it crushes, destroys, eliminates and replaces.


HOW LONG WILL THIS DESTRUCTION TAKE ?

If you took a hammer to a crystal glass how long would it take for the glass to shatter and be destroyed? Any suggestion it has been a 2000 year progrssive "crushing" flies in the explicit imagary of the narrative. The rock does not "chip-chip-chip" away at the stautue, it doesn't grind it until it topples, it slams into it and smashes it to smithereens !

In any case the following is clear from scripture...

(a) the total destruction of all "these" (human) governments/kingdoms is sure to come.
(b) this event is future to our time and has not happened yet (so the kingdom referred to has not yet "come" in the sense of accomplishing its mission)
(c) the amount of time it will take to destroy the worlds governments will be relatively short

To learn more please go to other posts related to

DANIEL'S PROPHECIES , .THE SECOND COMING * and ... THE BOOK OF REVELATION

*The Return of Christ

[JehovahsWitness]

WHAT WILL THE DESTRUCTION OF WORLDLY GOVERNMENTS MEAN FOR THE RIGHTEOUS?

We have already established how idyllic life will be under the rulership mentioned at Daniel 2:44 (see post #1249 point #1 "God takes control") but now we have further reason to see how perfect life will be. An end to the constant power struggles between governments means an end to war (see post #1251). An end to political rivalries, civil conflicts, rebellion and uprisings. No need for revolutions for all will enjoy perfect happiness under the perfect rule of God.

DANIEL 2:44 thus promises an earth under eternal and exclusive good rule, eternal satisfaction on every level (for what else can God in charge mean for the righteous) and eternal peace. What word comes to mind? Idlyllic ...

To learn more please go to other posts related to

DANIEL'S PROPHECIES , .THE SECOND COMING * and ... THE BOOK OF REVELATION

*The Return of Christ

[JehovahsWitness]

Now my questions for you MISSKATE are the following ...

Okay, so ....

1. Daniel 2 verse 44 speaks of a kingdom set up by God, what *is* that kingdom?

2. What are "these kingdoms" that the verse also refer to?

[myth-one.com]

The church is the kingdom on earth. It is spiritual by nature, and if you want to enter, you must be born again. When you are born again, the Lord will add you to His church, His kingdom.

No, the Earth is not now included in the Kingdom of Heaven. In fact, we are instructed in the Lord's prayer to pray for the Earth to become part of the Kingdom of Heaven:

Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. (Matthew 6:10)

After the Second Coming and Jesus' defeat of Satan, the Earth will once again become part of the kingdom:

The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. (Revelation 11:15)

Also, only spiritual bodied beings can inherit the Kingdom of God, and to become a spiritual bodied being one must be born of the Spirit (God):

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)

To date no human has been born of the Spirit. Being born again of the Spirit into everlasting spiritual life is the reward of the saved. And Jesus is bringing our reward upon His return:

Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him... (Isaiah 62:11)

And behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me... (Revelation 22:12)

[MissKate13]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1248]

You wrote: “ God and Jesus are spirits but this does not mean they cannot destroy physical wicked people or entities (governments). Nor does ot mean because God is in heaven he cannot rule over the physical planet EARTH. To suggest neither Jesus nor God cannot rule over the physical planet earth (as part of their territory) because they are spirits is a falsehood*.

You wrote: “* I'm not saying you have said that God being a SPIRIT cannot rule over a physical planet. I am just pointing out that God can rule from heaven over physical fleshly beings living on this our literal physical planet earth.”

Me: I agree. And with all my heart, I believe God is in control. He can do what ever He chooses to do.

[MissKate13]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1251]

There are quotes in your post #1251 where the author is not identified. I have no way of knowing who wrote them. Therefore, I will only respond to what I know you wrote.

For example, I wrote the following:

MissKate13 wrote: ↑
“It does not say it would be accomplished in one day, or that the establishment of Jesus’ kingdom would overthrow all governments immediately.”

You responded,
“SLOW GRADUAL DEGREDATION OR INSTANT DESTRUCTION.

Nobody to my knowledge has or can say how long it will take for God to destroy human governments but Daniel pictures a rock, slamming from a great height into a statue. This indicates that while we can expect some time between the initial formation of the rock and the moment of impact, once impact is made the destruction will be almost "instantaneous" or immediately upon impact. Remember the rock does not merely conquer in the sense of dominante, it crushes, destroys, eliminates and replaces.”

My response:
No one can say WHEN that day will be, but we can say that the earth and everything in it will be destroyed when Jesus comes again.

Peter describes what that day will be like.

2 Peter 3:10
10 But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and its works will be laid bare.

We know from Paul what that day will be like, and it will all happen in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye.

1 Corinthians 15:51-55

51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in m an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come to pass: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” 55 “Where, O Death, is your victory?
Where, O Death, is your sting?”

It is then that the earth and all of its human corrupt governments will be destroyed.

If you are in Jesus’ kingdom, you have nothing to fear at His second coming.

[MissKate13]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1254]

You wrote:
“No, the Earth is not now included in the Kingdom of Heaven. In fact, we are instructed in the Lord's prayer to pray for the Earth to become part of the Kingdom of Heaven:

Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. (Matthew 6:10)”

My response:
Jesus never said we should pray for the earth to part of the kingdom of heaven. We are to pray for God’s will to be done on earth as it is in heaven. You’re reading something into Jesus’ model prayer that is not there.

Keep in mind Christ’s kingdom was not established until Pentecost AD 33, after He gave His disciples the model prayer.

You wrote: “After the Second Coming and Jesus' defeat of Satan, the Earth will once again become part of the kingdom:”

My response: The final judgement will occur at Jesus’ Second Coming. Satan will be cast into eternal fire along with his angels (Matthew 25:41). At Jesus Second Coming, He will hand His kingdom over to the Father (1 Corinthians 15:24).

You wrote: “The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. (Revelation 11:15)”

My response: Revelation 11:15 has happened. The kingdom of Jesus is here now. It came with the power of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost AD 33. It is a spiritual kingdom, not physical.

You wrote:
“Also, only spiritual bodied beings can inherit the Kingdom of God, and to become a spiritual bodied being one must be born of the Spirit (God):
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)”
To date no human has been born of the Spirit. Being born again of the Spirit into everlasting spiritual life is the reward of the saved. And Jesus is bringing our reward upon His return:
Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him... (Isaiah 62:11)
And behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me... (Revelation 22:12)”

My response: Those who have obeyed the gospel of Jesus Christ have indeed entered the kingdom of our dear Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. To the church at Colossae, Paul wrote,

13. He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of His beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

It is not our physical bodies that enter into Jesus’ kingdom. It is our spiritual selves that do.

You are incorrect when you say no human has been born of the spirit.

1 Peter 1:3
“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.”

1 Peter 1:23
“for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.”

John 1:13
11 “He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.

[MissKate13]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1253]

You claimed that Daniel 2:44 showed a future idyllic earth. Will you now retract that statement and admit you made a mistake? Daniel 2:44 never mentions an idyllic earth

You asked , “Daniel 2 verse 44 speaks of a kingdom set up by God, what *is* that kingdom?”

I already answered that. The kingdom is here. It is spiritual and eternal in nature. It reigns in the hearts of Jesus’ followers in all of the kingdoms of the world.

You asked: What are "these kingdoms" that the verse also refer to?

My response: They are earthly kingdoms. Earthly kingdoms dominate by physical force while the kingdom of God conquers individuals in a spiritual way, bringing them into voluntary submission to the King of Kings (2 Corinthians 10:3-5).

Similarly, Jesus taught that the kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven. It works silently, unostentatiously, yet progressively (Matthew 13:33).

Jesus set up His kingdom (Acts2) in the days of “THOSE KINGS” (Pentecost AD 33). The kingdom at that time was a small footprint in the world. It would be followed by progressive, amazing growth. This amazing growth, and the assimilation of the kingdoms of men who would obey the gospel, followed. Men & women throughout the world continue and will continue to assimilate into the kingdom of Jesus. How long it would take for the stone to grow into a mountain that filled the earth is not the focus of Daniel 2:44.

[MissKate13]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1252]

You wrote: “
We have already established how idyllic life will be under the rulership mentioned at Daniel 2:44a but now we have further reason to see how perfect life will be. An end to the constant power struggles between governments means an end to war. An end to political rivalries, civil conflicts, rebellion and uprisings. No need for revolutions for all will enjoy perfect happiness under the perfect rule of God.”

My response: You have established no such thing. Daniel 2:44, which you offered as proof of this idyllic earthly life says no such thing.

Jesus never promised an idyllic life on earth. His promises will be realized in heaven.

[JehovahsWitness]

You asked , “Daniel 2 verse 44 speaks of a kingdom set up by God, what *is* that kingdom?”

I already answered that ...The kingdom is here.

That answers the question "has the kingdom arrived? " ; or "where is the kingdom" ; that was not my question.

It is spiritual .

That answers the question "what is its nature? " (ie is it physical or spiritual") ; that was not my question.

It is ... eternal in nature

That answers the question "how long will the kingdom last?" ; that was not my question.

It reigns in the hearts of Jesus’ followers in all of the kingdoms of the world.

That answers the question "what will it reign over ?" ; that was not my question.



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My question is WHAT >> IS << THE KINGDOM?


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