The kingdom of God.

[Checkpoint]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

[MissKate13]

The church is one aspect of the kingdom.

[onewithhim]

The church is one aspect of the kingdom.

"Unless you believe that I am HE, you will die..." He was making the point that he is the means by which God would save the world, not that he is God.

[MissKate13]

You wrote:
“Unless you believe that I am HE, you will die..." He was making the point that he is the means by which God would save the world, not that he is God.”

There is no “HE” in the Greek. Look at your Kingdom Interlinear.

“Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins.” (John 8:24)

I AM = Jehovah

[onewithhim]

You wrote:
“Unless you believe that I am HE, you will die..." He was making the point that he is the means by which God would save the world, not that he is God.”

There is no “HE” in the Greek. Look at your Kingdom Interlinear.

“Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins.” (John 8:24)

I AM = Jehovah

That is not how it is translated in versions of the Bible. You are taking the liberty to change the meaning of the verse. King James Version: "Unless you believe that I am he, you will die in your sins."

Holy Family Edition of the Catholic Bible: "If you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sin."

Revised Standard Version: "You will die in your sins unless you believe that I am he."

I could go on. The translators could see that to round out the understanding of what Jesus was saying, "he" must be involved in the statement, for he was just saying that he was the means by which Jehovah saves, not that he is Jehovah. Read the verses previous to this, and you can get the idea of what he was saying. It has been shown ad nauseum here on these threads that Jesus couldn't be Jehovah. You have yet to explain Psalm 110 where Jehovah speaks to the Messiah, and Isaiah 61:1,2 where the Messiah is anointed by Jehovah and sent by Jehovah.

[MissKate13]

It doesn’t matter how John 8:24 is translated into the English language. The Greek manuscript does NOT contain the word HE in verse 24. Jesus said, Unless you believe I AM….

I AM Is the name reserved for Jehovah. Yet Jesus refers to Himself as I AM on more than one occasion. None could be clearer than John 8:58.

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

Yes I have read the verses before and after, but obviously you have not.

Jesus says in 8:14, “for I am not alone, but I am with the Father who sent Me.”

Why can’t you understand that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are ONE GOD? They are inseparable!

Too many places in the Bible show us that the Father is God. Jesus is God. The Holy Spirit is God.

Believe what you will!! I’m through proving it.

[onewithhim]

It doesn’t matter how John 8:24 is translated into the English language. The Greek manuscript does NOT contain the word HE in verse 24. Jesus said, Unless you believe I AM….

I AM Is the name reserved for Jehovah. Yet Jesus refers to Himself as I AM on more than one occasion. None could be clearer than John 8:58.

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

Yes I have read the verses before and after, but obviously you have not.

Jesus says in 8:14, “for I am not alone, but I am with the Father who sent Me.”

Why can’t you understand that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are ONE GOD? They are inseparable!

Too many places in the Bible show us that the Father is God. Jesus is God. The Holy Spirit is God.

Believe what you will!! I’m through proving it.

You haven't proved a thing. All of your "proof" involves lousy translating and questionable speculative understanding, and this has been explained to you in detail. And you still haven't commented on Isaiah 61:1,2 and Psalm 110.

If all it takes is for someone to say "I am" to show that he is God, then the man who was blind but that Jesus cured (John 8:9) is surely God, according to your reasoning.

[JehovahsWitness]

It doesn’t matter how John 8:24 is translated into the English language. The Greek manuscript does NOT contain the word HE in verse 24. Jesus said, Unless you believe I AM….

I AM Is the name reserved for Jehovah. Yet Jesus refers to Himself as I AM on more than one occasion. None could be clearer than John 8:58.

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

Yes I have read the verses before and after, but obviously you have not.

Jesus says in 8:14, “for I am not alone, but I am with the Father who sent Me.”

Why can’t you understand that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are ONE GOD? They are inseparable!

Too many places in the Bible show us that the Father is God. Jesus is God. The Holy Spirit is God.

Believe what you will!! I’m through proving it.

You haven't proved a thing. All of your "proof" involves lousy translating and questionable speculative understanding, and this has been explained to you in detail. And you still haven't commented on Isaiah 61:1,2 and Psalm 110.

If all it takes is for someone to say "I am" to show that he is God, then the man who was blind but that Jesus cured (John 8:9) is surely God, according to your reasoning.

This is because the bible is clear, Jesus never claimed equality with God. Even in heaven he supports and submits to the Father.



JW

[onewithhim]

It doesn’t matter how John 8:24 is translated into the English language. The Greek manuscript does NOT contain the word HE in verse 24. Jesus said, Unless you believe I AM….

I AM Is the name reserved for Jehovah. Yet Jesus refers to Himself as I AM on more than one occasion. None could be clearer than John 8:58.

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

Yes I have read the verses before and after, but obviously you have not.

Jesus says in 8:14, “for I am not alone, but I am with the Father who sent Me.”

Why can’t you understand that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are ONE GOD? They are inseparable!

Too many places in the Bible show us that the Father is God. Jesus is God. The Holy Spirit is God.

Believe what you will!! I’m through proving it.

You haven't proved a thing. All of your "proof" involves lousy translating and questionable speculative understanding, and this has been explained to you in detail. And you still haven't commented on Isaiah 61:1,2 and Psalm 110.

If all it takes is for someone to say "I am" to show that he is God, then the man who was blind but that Jesus cured (John 8:9) is surely God, according to your reasoning.

This is because the bible is clear, Jesus never claimed equality with God. Even in heaven he supports and submits to the Father.



JW

Yes, that is correct. Paul wrote, after Jesus was in heaven, "But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3) And who did Jesus say is God? His Father, Jehovah. He said to his Father: "YOU are the only true God." (John 17:3) Therefore we can see that according to the Scriptures Jesus is subordinate to God.

[JehovahsWitness]

Yes, that is correct. Paul wrote, after Jesus was in heaven, "But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3) And who did Jesus say is God? His Father, Jehovah. He said to his Father: "YOU are the only true God." (John 17:3) Therefore we can see that according to the Scriptures Jesus is subordinate to God.

I'm supposing most people either dont know that passage is in the bible or choose to ignore it. In any case Jesus never said or did anything that indicated equality with His Father.

[myth-one.com]

Yes, that is correct. Paul wrote, after Jesus was in heaven, "But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3) And who did Jesus say is God? His Father, Jehovah. He said to his Father: "YOU are the only true God." (John 17:3) Therefore we can see that according to the Scriptures Jesus is subordinate to God.

I'm supposing most people either dont know that passage is in the bible or choose to ignore it. In any case Jesus never said or did anything that indicated equality with His Father.

Some may think the following verse states they are equal:

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

But it probably means that the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost all agree to the same plan or purpose.