Did Paul base creeds on “mystery� or blind-faith?

[paarsurrey1]

Did Paul base creeds on “mystery� to make Christianity a blind-faith?

But Jesus believed with reason.
Paul, for his own suitability, wanted that people should inculcate blind-faith in them instead of reason and Revelation from God, to bring them under his control.
The truthful Religion has got nothing to do with blind-faith, please.
Regards

[Monta]

[Replying to post 40 by Elijah John]


"How come in Jesus most important Sermon, (Matthew 5-7) he makes no mention of the importance of believing in his impending death and resurrection, for forgiveness or salvation? Not mention there....at all."

That and a lot more was commanded by Jesus to be preached by his disciples/apostols.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Elijah John]

A better word may be that he* "encountered" the Risen Christ, who presumably spoke to him from a cloud.
(*Paul)

But Paul was not a witness of Jesus going to the skies/heaven to start with.

Regards

True, but still, an encounter with the "Risen Christ" gives him an unfair advantage over the rest of us, who have not been so fortunate.

So it is easy for Paul to say "believe in your heart that God raised him (Christ) from the dead, and you will be saved".

That is an added condition for salvation that Paul introduced. A condition for salvation that Jesus never made. Very unfair of Paul to have done this, I doubt very much that God would be unfair like that.

No, it was not an "added condition" that Paul introduced. It has been explained that Paul was merely reiterating what Jesus had said previously, e.g., at John 3:16.

How's that? Seems a stretch to say the least...I don't see the connection. Jesus resurrection is not even mentioned in that verse.

Does it not say that we must "believe in him [God's only-begotten Son]," and if we believe in him we will not perish but have everlasting life?

What does "believing in him" include? Wouldn't it be whatever he said and did and whatever he stood for? It would, basically, be everything about him, right?

Didn't he say that he would be killed and "the third day will be raised up"? (Matthew 17:23)

According to Matthew he did, but did not specify believing that as a condition for salvation.

How are you so sure that "believing in him" doesn't mean believing in his teaching?

That's what I said---we believe everything about him, and that includes his teaching. He said what I quoted from Matthew 17:23. If you don't believe that he said that, then you can't believe any of the scriptures that venture to state what he said.

[paarsurrey1]

[Replying to Elijah John]

A better word may be that he* "encountered" the Risen Christ, who presumably spoke to him from a cloud.
(*Paul)

But Paul was not a witness of Jesus going to the skies/heaven to start with.

Regards

True, but still, an encounter with the "Risen Christ" gives him an unfair advantage over the rest of us, who have not been so fortunate.

So it is easy for Paul to say "believe in your heart that God raised him (Christ) from the dead, and you will be saved".

That is an added condition for salvation that Paul introduced. A condition for salvation that Jesus never made. Very unfair of Paul to have done this, I doubt very much that God would be unfair like that.

"Risen Christ" gives him (Paul) an unfair advantage over the rest of us

It is just a blind-faith, not a reasonable and rational faith that Jesus preached.
Paul did not meet Jesus personally.
He just stated that Jesus had met him in a vision.
Jesus did not declare Paul a trust-worthy person. Did he, please?
Regards

[Elijah John]

[Replying to Elijah John]

A better word may be that he* "encountered" the Risen Christ, who presumably spoke to him from a cloud.
(*Paul)

But Paul was not a witness of Jesus going to the skies/heaven to start with.

Regards

True, but still, an encounter with the "Risen Christ" gives him an unfair advantage over the rest of us, who have not been so fortunate.

So it is easy for Paul to say "believe in your heart that God raised him (Christ) from the dead, and you will be saved".

That is an added condition for salvation that Paul introduced. A condition for salvation that Jesus never made. Very unfair of Paul to have done this, I doubt very much that God would be unfair like that.

"Risen Christ" gives him (Paul) an unfair advantage over the rest of us

It is just a blind-faith, not a reasonable and rational faith that Jesus preached.
Paul did not meet Jesus personally.
He just stated that Jesus had met him in a vision.
Jesus did not declare Paul a trust-worthy person. Did he, please?
Regards

No, I don't believe Jesus ever did declare such a thing. Unless by implication, by virtue of Jesus speaking to Paul from the could.

I am skeptical of such a claim.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Elijah John]

A better word may be that he* "encountered" the Risen Christ, who presumably spoke to him from a cloud.
(*Paul)

But Paul was not a witness of Jesus going to the skies/heaven to start with.

Regards

True, but still, an encounter with the "Risen Christ" gives him an unfair advantage over the rest of us, who have not been so fortunate.

So it is easy for Paul to say "believe in your heart that God raised him (Christ) from the dead, and you will be saved".

That is an added condition for salvation that Paul introduced. A condition for salvation that Jesus never made. Very unfair of Paul to have done this, I doubt very much that God would be unfair like that.

"Risen Christ" gives him (Paul) an unfair advantage over the rest of us

It is just a blind-faith, not a reasonable and rational faith that Jesus preached.
Paul did not meet Jesus personally.
He just stated that Jesus had met him in a vision.
Jesus did not declare Paul a trust-worthy person. Did he, please?
Regards

You say that Jesus preached "just a blind-faith" and not reasonable or rational? How so?

Paul did not say that he met Jesus "in a vision." A vision would be seeing something that wasn't really there. The scripture says that "suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him [Paul, then Saul]." (Acts 9:3) There is nothing about it being a "vision." We can take it to the bank that Paul encountered Jesus himself.

Of course Jesus "declared" Paul a trustworthy person.....by sending him out to go into Damascus and do something according to what He wanted done. Jesus went on to say to a man called Ananias that Saul would be in a certain house and that he should go and lay his hands on this man Saul. Ananias objected and Jesus said, "Be on your way, because this man is a chosen vessel to me to bear my name to the nations as well as to kings and the sons of Israel." (Acts 9:15)

[Monta]

[Replying to post 45 by onewithhim]


"You say that Jesus preached "just a blind-faith" and not reasonable or rational? How so?

Paul did not say that he met Jesus "in a vision." A vision would be seeing something that wasn't really there. The scripture says that "suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him [Paul, then Saul]." (Acts 9:3) There is nothing about it being a "vision." We can take it to the bank that Paul encountered Jesus himself. "

Thank you for this correction. Nice to get it right.
Some people either do not know the scripture, perhaps never read it only what they hear here and there, or intentionally misconstrue it.

[paarsurrey1]

[Replying to Elijah John]

A better word may be that he* "encountered" the Risen Christ, who presumably spoke to him from a cloud.
(*Paul)

But Paul was not a witness of Jesus going to the skies/heaven to start with.

Regards

True, but still, an encounter with the "Risen Christ" gives him an unfair advantage over the rest of us, who have not been so fortunate.

So it is easy for Paul to say "believe in your heart that God raised him (Christ) from the dead, and you will be saved".

That is an added condition for salvation that Paul introduced. A condition for salvation that Jesus never made. Very unfair of Paul to have done this, I doubt very much that God would be unfair like that.

"Risen Christ" gives him (Paul) an unfair advantage over the rest of us

It is just a blind-faith, not a reasonable and rational faith that Jesus preached.
Paul did not meet Jesus personally.
He just stated that Jesus had met him in a vision.
Jesus did not declare Paul a trust-worthy person. Did he, please?
Regards

You say that Jesus preached "just a blind-faith" and not reasonable or rational? How so?

Paul did not say that he met Jesus "in a vision." A vision would be seeing something that wasn't really there. The scripture says that "suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him [Paul, then Saul]." (Acts 9:3) There is nothing about it being a "vision." We can take it to the bank that Paul encountered Jesus himself.

Of course Jesus "declared" Paul a trustworthy person.....by sending him out to go into Damascus and do something according to what He wanted done. Jesus went on to say to a man called Ananias that Saul would be in a certain house and that he should go and lay his hands on this man Saul. Ananias objected and Jesus said, "Be on your way, because this man is a chosen vessel to me to bear my name to the nations as well as to kings and the sons of Israel." (Acts 9:15)

You say that Jesus preached "just a blind-faith" and not reasonable or rational? How so?

I didn't say that Jesus preached "just a blind -faith". Did I, please?
Regards

[marco]

Paul did not meet Jesus personally.
He just stated that Jesus had met him in a vision.

Let us be scrupulously fair. For many Paul is regarded with some reverence. If we throw him out because he simply "claimed" to have had a vision, then we must throw out Muhammad who also "claimed" to have a vision. And worse, he claimed to have made a night journey on a winged horse. Paul's horse had no wings. Do we think that endowing a horse with flappers enables it to fly? Daedalus, in Greek mythology, gave his son Icarus wings, in the same mistaken belief.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 45 by onewithhim]


"You say that Jesus preached "just a blind-faith" and not reasonable or rational? How so?

Paul did not say that he met Jesus "in a vision." A vision would be seeing something that wasn't really there. The scripture says that "suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him [Paul, then Saul]." (Acts 9:3) There is nothing about it being a "vision." We can take it to the bank that Paul encountered Jesus himself. "

Thank you for this correction. Nice to get it right.
Some people either do not know the scripture, perhaps never read it only what they hear here and there, or intentionally misconstrue it.

I am interested to know how you arrived at the idea that Jesus preached "blind faith" and was not reasonable nor rational. (Or was that paar?)

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Elijah John]

A better word may be that he* "encountered" the Risen Christ, who presumably spoke to him from a cloud.
(*Paul)

But Paul was not a witness of Jesus going to the skies/heaven to start with.

Regards

True, but still, an encounter with the "Risen Christ" gives him an unfair advantage over the rest of us, who have not been so fortunate.

So it is easy for Paul to say "believe in your heart that God raised him (Christ) from the dead, and you will be saved".

That is an added condition for salvation that Paul introduced. A condition for salvation that Jesus never made. Very unfair of Paul to have done this, I doubt very much that God would be unfair like that.

"Risen Christ" gives him (Paul) an unfair advantage over the rest of us

It is just a blind-faith, not a reasonable and rational faith that Jesus preached.
Paul did not meet Jesus personally.
He just stated that Jesus had met him in a vision.
Jesus did not declare Paul a trust-worthy person. Did he, please?
Regards

You say that Jesus preached "just a blind-faith" and not reasonable or rational? How so?

Paul did not say that he met Jesus "in a vision." A vision would be seeing something that wasn't really there. The scripture says that "suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him [Paul, then Saul]." (Acts 9:3) There is nothing about it being a "vision." We can take it to the bank that Paul encountered Jesus himself.

Of course Jesus "declared" Paul a trustworthy person.....by sending him out to go into Damascus and do something according to what He wanted done. Jesus went on to say to a man called Ananias that Saul would be in a certain house and that he should go and lay his hands on this man Saul. Ananias objected and Jesus said, "Be on your way, because this man is a chosen vessel to me to bear my name to the nations as well as to kings and the sons of Israel." (Acts 9:15)

You say that Jesus preached "just a blind-faith" and not reasonable or rational? How so?

I didn't say that Jesus preached "just a blind -faith". Did I, please?
Regards

Yes, in your post #43.