What did Paul mean by this? In what way does nature teach this?1 Corinthians 11:14-15 wrote: Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him, but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her for a covering.
Is Nature against males having long hair?
Moderator: Moderators
- McCulloch
- Site Supporter
- Posts: 24063
- Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 9:10 pm
- Location: Toronto, ON, CA
- Been thanked: 3 times
Is Nature against males having long hair?
Post #1Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
- JehovahsWitness
- Savant
- Posts: 21073
- Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
- Has thanked: 790 times
- Been thanked: 1114 times
- Contact:
Re: Is Nature against males having long hair?
Post #2[Replying to post 1 by McCulloch]
1 CORINTHIANS 11:14
"Isn't it obvious that it's disgraceful for a man to have long hair?" - New Living Translation
I have explained this passage when you asked a very similar question earlier, here is the answer in case you missed it. LINK What did Paul mean that "nature" teaches us about hair?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 927#814927
QUESTION: Was Paul implying it was "shameful" for a lion to have a mane, or that other such like creatures should be shaved?
No, Paul specifically referred to human males (a man) made no mention of animals. The "hair" on animals is usually referred to as "fur" and Paul's reference to "nature", far from a call to model hairstyles after the animal kingdom seems to be an idiomatic reference to human custom or understanding (see above)
JW
RELATED POSTS
1 CORINTHIANS 11:14
"Isn't it obvious that it's disgraceful for a man to have long hair?" - New Living Translation
I have explained this passage when you asked a very similar question earlier, here is the answer in case you missed it. LINK What did Paul mean that "nature" teaches us about hair?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 927#814927
VARIOUS COMMENTARIES
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
The word nature (φυ�σις phusis) denotes evidently that sense of propriety which all men have , and which is expressed in any prevailing or universal custom. That which is universal we say is according to nature.
New Living TranslationEllicott's Commentary for English Readers
Nature itself.—This may mean, either “the native inborn sense of what is seemly� as contrasted with revelation; or it may signify the ordinary and evident arrangement of things in creation.
Matthew Poole's Commentary
The apostle arguing, that as the male and female sex are artificially distinguished by garments, and it was the will of God they should be so, so they should also be distinguished by the wearing of their hair; and it was no less shame for a man to wear his hair like a woman, than to wear garments like a woman.
QUESTION: Was Paul implying it was "shameful" for a lion to have a mane, or that other such like creatures should be shaved?
No, Paul specifically referred to human males (a man) made no mention of animals. The "hair" on animals is usually referred to as "fur" and Paul's reference to "nature", far from a call to model hairstyles after the animal kingdom seems to be an idiomatic reference to human custom or understanding (see above)
JW
RELATED POSTS
Did Jesus have long hair?
viewtopic.php?p=947656#p947656
What did Jesus look like?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 94#p925494
What did Paul mean that "nature" teaches us about hair?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 27#p814927
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 44#p866744
Are the Apostles Peter and Paul prohibiting the wearing of gold and the braiding of hair?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 31#p797831
Why did Paul speak of long hair only for women since Samson had long hair?
viewtopic.php?p=1088325#p1088325
To learn more please go to other posts related to...
JESUS CHRIST, APPEARANCE, and ...JEHOVAH'S WITNESS ARTWORK
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed Aug 10, 2022 3:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
-
- Savant
- Posts: 12235
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:23 pm
- Location: New England
- Has thanked: 11 times
- Been thanked: 16 times
Re: Is Nature against males having long hair?
Post #3Paul's statement is yet another one of his non-sequitors, and diminishes his credibility.McCulloch wrote:What did Paul mean by this? In what way does nature teach this?1 Corinthians 11:14-15 wrote: Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him, but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her for a covering.
Some others:
-"If works of the law could save you, then Christ died in vain"
-"If Christ is not raised, you are still in your sins".
How do any of these things follow??
My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
- McCulloch
- Site Supporter
- Posts: 24063
- Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 9:10 pm
- Location: Toronto, ON, CA
- Been thanked: 3 times
Re: Is Nature against males having long hair?
Post #4[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]
It seems that you are saying that when Paul uses the word nature, he really means artificial, human custom. Your explanation has helped me understand just how you have difficulty seeing contradictions in scripture. Up might be down; black might be white.
It seems that you are saying that when Paul uses the word nature, he really means artificial, human custom. Your explanation has helped me understand just how you have difficulty seeing contradictions in scripture. Up might be down; black might be white.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
Re: Is Nature against males having long hair?
Post #5But... what about Samson?McCulloch wrote:What did Paul mean by this? In what way does nature teach this?1 Corinthians 11:14-15 wrote: Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him, but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her for a covering.
- onewithhim
- Savant
- Posts: 8904
- Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
- Location: Norwich, CT
- Has thanked: 1217 times
- Been thanked: 305 times
Re: Is Nature against males having long hair?
Post #6Samson was a Nazarite, which is a certain group of faithful men (or, occasionally, women) set aside for a special purpose. "Nazarite" actually means "one singled out; dedicated one; separated one." Regulations governing Nazarites are found in chapter 6 of the book of Numbers. Three particular restrictions for those that vowed to be Nazarites:Justin108 wrote:But... what about Samson?McCulloch wrote:What did Paul mean by this? In what way does nature teach this?1 Corinthians 11:14-15 wrote: Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him, but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her for a covering.
1) They were to drink no intoxicating beverage or eat any product of the grapevine.
2) They were not to cut the hair of their heads.
3) They were not to touch a dead body.
.
- McCulloch
- Site Supporter
- Posts: 24063
- Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 9:10 pm
- Location: Toronto, ON, CA
- Been thanked: 3 times
Re: Is Nature against males having long hair?
Post #7[Replying to post 6 by onewithhim]
You say that they are faithful. Paul says that they are dishonourable. Who is wrong? Can they be both?
You say that they are faithful. Paul says that they are dishonourable. Who is wrong? Can they be both?
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
- JehovahsWitness
- Savant
- Posts: 21073
- Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
- Has thanked: 790 times
- Been thanked: 1114 times
- Contact:
Re: Is Nature against males having long hair?
Post #8Both are correct, if we understand that Paul not speaking in the absolute. Did you miss my comment in this regard? I'll link you back to it just in case (see below)McCulloch wrote: [Replying to post 6 by onewithhim]
You say that they are faithful. Paul says that they are dishonourable. Who is wrong? Can they be both?
Did Paul's word's contradict the Mosaic law about long hair?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 273#815273
RELATED THREADS
What did Paul mean when he used the expression "nature" teaches us about long hair?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 744#866744
Did Paul advocate the shaving of lions and other animals with fur?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 852#867852
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat May 27, 2017 8:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
- JehovahsWitness
- Savant
- Posts: 21073
- Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
- Has thanked: 790 times
- Been thanked: 1114 times
- Contact:
Re: Is Nature against males having long hair?
Post #9[Replying to post 4 by McCulloch]
QUESTION: When Paul said "nature" teaches us about long hair, was Paul implying it was "shameful" for a lion to have a mane, or that other such like creatures should be shaved?
No, Paul specifically referred to human males (a man) made no mention of animals. The "hair" on animals is usually referred to as "fur" and Paul's reference to "nature", far from a call to model hairstyles after the animal kingdom seems to be an idiomatic reference to human custom or understanding (see above)
JW
QUESTION: When Paul said "nature" teaches us about long hair, was Paul implying it was "shameful" for a lion to have a mane, or that other such like creatures should be shaved?
No, Paul specifically referred to human males (a man) made no mention of animals. The "hair" on animals is usually referred to as "fur" and Paul's reference to "nature", far from a call to model hairstyles after the animal kingdom seems to be an idiomatic reference to human custom or understanding (see above)
JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
- onewithhim
- Savant
- Posts: 8904
- Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
- Location: Norwich, CT
- Has thanked: 1217 times
- Been thanked: 305 times
Re: Is Nature against males having long hair?
Post #10Obviously the Nazarites were not of the regular population. It was a specific instruction that they were not to cut their hair. Therefore it must have been common for men to wear their hair short. The Nazarites were a group SET APART.McCulloch wrote: [Replying to post 6 by onewithhim]
You say that they are faithful. Paul says that they are dishonourable. Who is wrong? Can they be both?